The same reason there aren't disposable hammers, cars, houses, etc. It's just plain stupid. :banghead: Why make a hammer that can only be used to pound in 100 nails and then have the handle break? Or a car that needs its engine changed every 3K miles? Or a house that needs the plumbing replaced every year?
Why hasn't the market for a good disposable gun been filled?
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The same reason there aren't disposable hammers, cars, houses, etc. It's just plain stupid. :banghead: Why make a hammer that can only be used to pound in 100 nails and then have the handle break? Or a car that needs its engine changed every 3K miles? Or a house that needs the plumbing replaced every year?
W.E.G.
Member
They ARE making them again.
Kinda pricey though.
See http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=557873&highlight=Liberator
Kinda pricey though.
See http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=557873&highlight=Liberator
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
The materials required to safely and reliably handle 35,000 to 60,000 psi are materials that will last a LONG time. If you design a gun for sufficient strength to handle the working pressures and that won't break under normal use, it will last pretty well.
There's also the issue with reliability (el cheapo materials tend to break when you need them most), weight and bulk (cheaper materials aren't as strong so they have to be much thicker and heavier), and legal liability (if a "disposable" gun wasn't as safe as a real gun, you'd have big trouble with product liability lawsuits).
Finally, I simply don't think there's much of a market for a designed-to-fail gun. S&W tried the quality-semi-disposable-gun route with their Sigma .380 in the '90s, and it bombed, because not many people wanted to pay good money for a gun designed not to last.
There's also the issue with reliability (el cheapo materials tend to break when you need them most), weight and bulk (cheaper materials aren't as strong so they have to be much thicker and heavier), and legal liability (if a "disposable" gun wasn't as safe as a real gun, you'd have big trouble with product liability lawsuits).
Finally, I simply don't think there's much of a market for a designed-to-fail gun. S&W tried the quality-semi-disposable-gun route with their Sigma .380 in the '90s, and it bombed, because not many people wanted to pay good money for a gun designed not to last.
Why aren't there disposable guns?
Liability and politics.
Just as some people buy pepper spray in the checkout line at Walmart and tasers (wherever) there would be people that would pay $50 for a disposable handgun for self defense. Someone will always buy crap if the price is right.
Liability and politics.
Just as some people buy pepper spray in the checkout line at Walmart and tasers (wherever) there would be people that would pay $50 for a disposable handgun for self defense. Someone will always buy crap if the price is right.
tradja
Member
What, like most firearms owners?
speedway
Member
Two words.
Phoenix Arms
Phoenix Arms
sert01
Member
There is a disposible weapon made. It's called a rock!! My life means more to me than having to rely on a "disposible" firearm. Maybe you could upgrade that rock to a slingshot and get more range out of it!!
mcdonl
Member
I am not sure, and I have no way to prove it but I will be willing to bet a significant number of regular folks who have used a gun in self defense have fired the gun very little. Just a hunch.
The type of people (Like us) who train, adopt a mindset and purchase tools to meet our needs are the least likely to be in the position to need to use a gun to protect our homes or our person outside the home.
It is the little old lady, or little old man who are easy targets who would be more likely, and for them a $1000 pistol is not the best choice.
YMMV
The type of people (Like us) who train, adopt a mindset and purchase tools to meet our needs are the least likely to be in the position to need to use a gun to protect our homes or our person outside the home.
It is the little old lady, or little old man who are easy targets who would be more likely, and for them a $1000 pistol is not the best choice.
YMMV
Oregun89
Member
Hi-point...
What "market"? Who in their right mind would want a "disposable gun"? There's a saying about "there are no stupid questions", but I think you just disproved that.
Read a question earlier.....maybe here, maybe on another forum.....some guy was pondering the feasibility of a gun with a camera inside the barrel for sighting!
Man, some people's kids.....
Read a question earlier.....maybe here, maybe on another forum.....some guy was pondering the feasibility of a gun with a camera inside the barrel for sighting!
Man, some people's kids.....
Marshall
Member
There is a market and it's already filled.
It's the used guns on the shelves that sell for 100-200 bucks.
It's the used guns on the shelves that sell for 100-200 bucks.
I'm sure that there would be a market for disposable guns since there are a great number of people barely living from paycheck to paycheck and not everyone can afford a $500 Glock or even a used $220 S&W Model 10. There are a large number of honest people that live in crime ridden neighborhoods and they get by on food stamps, welfare and minimum wage. This group could probably benefit from a $40 handgun. I would envision a non reloadable handgun in a medium caliber that is safe to operate but doesn't have to stand up to a lifetime of wear and tear.
I remember reading about this Haitian woman that was gang raped (and son abused) in some projects in FL. I doubt that this is an uncommon tale. I'm sure that this woman could have used some kind of cheap weapon.
Unfortunately these guns would most likely be used by criminals more than anyone else and there would be a huge number of straw purchases. No one would practice with these weapons since they are disposable and gun handling would seriously suffer. I would also expect more accidents as a great number of uneducated (poverty often follows a lack of education) and untrained people would buy these weapons.
It's best that we don't sell disposable guns in blister packs at the Walmart checkout line. I can see how they would fill a void for some that honestly need protection but can't afford even a $200 gun. It's just not worth the bad press, increased accidents and increased numbers of guns flowing into the hands of criminals.
We never saw the "Wild West Shootouts" in the street after every fender bender like the anti gunners predicted when CCW was spreading but I do believe that if cheap, disposable guns were sold we would see murder rates spike every Sat. night.
I remember reading about this Haitian woman that was gang raped (and son abused) in some projects in FL. I doubt that this is an uncommon tale. I'm sure that this woman could have used some kind of cheap weapon.
Unfortunately these guns would most likely be used by criminals more than anyone else and there would be a huge number of straw purchases. No one would practice with these weapons since they are disposable and gun handling would seriously suffer. I would also expect more accidents as a great number of uneducated (poverty often follows a lack of education) and untrained people would buy these weapons.
It's best that we don't sell disposable guns in blister packs at the Walmart checkout line. I can see how they would fill a void for some that honestly need protection but can't afford even a $200 gun. It's just not worth the bad press, increased accidents and increased numbers of guns flowing into the hands of criminals.
We never saw the "Wild West Shootouts" in the street after every fender bender like the anti gunners predicted when CCW was spreading but I do believe that if cheap, disposable guns were sold we would see murder rates spike every Sat. night.
Gryffydd
Member
I'm sure there would be a market for cheap disposable MRI machines and cheap disposable helicopters too. There are a lot of people who could benefit from such products. The question isn't "would anyone buy a cheap, disposable gun?" It's also a question of whether the nature of the product lends itself to that kind of manufacturing. MRI machines, helicopters and guns just don't fall into that category.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
There is a huge spectrum of affordable, reliable guns in between a hypothetical disposable gun and a $1000 custom pistol.
My wife's first gun was a Phoenix Arms Raven, .25 ACP, $69 plus tax and fees in the mid-'90s. It was bulky and heavy for the caliber, but not what I'd consider "disposable"; it was reliable, was surprisingly accurate, and she shot it regularly until she could afford a quality 9mm.
The thing is, once you start trying to undercut a $69 or $79 firearm, it's like trying to undercut a $29.95 drill. Yeah, some people might buy a cheap plastic drill with die-cast bits for $19.95 that would only drill 200 holes before catching on fire and falling apart, but more people will pay a little more and get something that will hold up a little longer and be safer to use.
Since no one touched on it, I will. There are two OTHER potential customer bases for this product: homicides and suicides. Neither would be very likely to do much repeat business.
I'm sure we can all imagine scenarios where those two groups would use something like this on impulse--annoying neighbor, barking dog (although that would be caniscide), nagging girlfriend or parent, or, I just lost the farm at the Indian Casino and want to end it all...I'm sure we get the idea.
What about the legalities? How do you go about, well...
1) Buying--there's a ten-day waiting period in CA and others in other states--how can we be sure the thing won't run out of shelf-life before we even take it home?
2) Registration--do you get a "T" before your registration number? How will the Feds differentiate between a "heirloom" gun and the throwaways?
3) Disposal--this ain't a Bic lighter, sonny, this is still a lethal weapon, although if it's worn out, which side is more lethal, in front or in back? Then, there's that pesky little number thing. I'm sure the BATFE has nothing better to do than run down a whole bunch of previously valid numbers and cancel them out. By the way, on whose say-so are they doing this cancellation? Local cops? Well, they're pretty busy right now, answering shooting calls. The buyer? Right, I've some Blue-Sky stock you need to look into if that's what you're thinking. Oh, now I get it--you're going to add a whole 'nother layer of bureaucracy.
Imagine all the jobs to be created. First, we've got the R&D fellows just developing the product, then the tool and die guys, then the production guys who geared up to meet a demand anticipated to be ten times that of normal firearm production, then all the clerks who're gonna sell this thing, then all the paper-shufflers who pick up then cancel the registrations, plus all the guys who are actually responsible for the receipt of, transportation, break-down and disposal/recycling of the product's components. And all this doesn't include the three or four levels of management needed to oversee this whole magilla...
By golly, you may have solved the recession!
ed
I'm sure we can all imagine scenarios where those two groups would use something like this on impulse--annoying neighbor, barking dog (although that would be caniscide), nagging girlfriend or parent, or, I just lost the farm at the Indian Casino and want to end it all...I'm sure we get the idea.
What about the legalities? How do you go about, well...
1) Buying--there's a ten-day waiting period in CA and others in other states--how can we be sure the thing won't run out of shelf-life before we even take it home?
2) Registration--do you get a "T" before your registration number? How will the Feds differentiate between a "heirloom" gun and the throwaways?
3) Disposal--this ain't a Bic lighter, sonny, this is still a lethal weapon, although if it's worn out, which side is more lethal, in front or in back? Then, there's that pesky little number thing. I'm sure the BATFE has nothing better to do than run down a whole bunch of previously valid numbers and cancel them out. By the way, on whose say-so are they doing this cancellation? Local cops? Well, they're pretty busy right now, answering shooting calls. The buyer? Right, I've some Blue-Sky stock you need to look into if that's what you're thinking. Oh, now I get it--you're going to add a whole 'nother layer of bureaucracy.
Imagine all the jobs to be created. First, we've got the R&D fellows just developing the product, then the tool and die guys, then the production guys who geared up to meet a demand anticipated to be ten times that of normal firearm production, then all the clerks who're gonna sell this thing, then all the paper-shufflers who pick up then cancel the registrations, plus all the guys who are actually responsible for the receipt of, transportation, break-down and disposal/recycling of the product's components. And all this doesn't include the three or four levels of management needed to oversee this whole magilla...
By golly, you may have solved the recession!
ed
Al LaVodka
member
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Let's just agree they're called Taurus' and... What's that? They have to have quality and WORK out of the box!? Oh. Never mind.
Al
Al
mickeygrimreaperblueeyes
Member
One Question for the OP> is your name Tom and did you live on Cornbread road in Yorktown? If so, when you stole my beretta, you already got my disposable gun.
If not, then why on earth would you not want a Lorcin. They work for about 20 rounds and then they are done. "High"points work for a few rounds too. Just not as reliably as Lorcins.
Junk is Junk. If you want a great disposable, buy a black powder derringer and get interchangeable barrels. Humm? High Quality and disposable. and very hard to trace...
If not, then why on earth would you not want a Lorcin. They work for about 20 rounds and then they are done. "High"points work for a few rounds too. Just not as reliably as Lorcins.
Junk is Junk. If you want a great disposable, buy a black powder derringer and get interchangeable barrels. Humm? High Quality and disposable. and very hard to trace...
Lou McGopher
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The Palm Pistol?
Pigspitter
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I feel like the H&R and Rossi single shots as well as the plethora of single shot .22's fill this market already. They're not the best guns, but they'll do what they're meant to safely and reliably. Nobody is going to dispose of a gun but at the price range that these are, nobody is going to be too miffed if the gun is accidentaly broken/damaged/barely used/or stolen.
REAPER4206969
Member
Something of interest; Glock factory disposable suppressor:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnahn3D2sAc
ConstitutionCowboy
member
Make it like a pepper box, preloaded with six to eight built-in case-less rounds, electronic ignition with power supplies similar to the batteries built into the old Polaroid film packs, with a barrel array that can be tossed into the recycling bin, and a plastic action that can be tossed into the other recycling bin. Keep the cost between $25.00 and $35.00 and I'll buy a dozen.
Woody
Woody
Sure there have been plenty of stabs at disposable fire arms, though most of them can be filed in derringer catagory... The Leinad .45/410 comes to mind. 5 shot manual cycle pepperbox that you'll only want to use in the most dire situations because it will punish you for doing so.
@ Constitutional Cowboy
You'd be interested in Metal Storm technology. Stacked bullet (end to end) technology with electric ignition. Can produce truely phenominal rates of fire. They're not exactly thriving as a company though, partly because adopting them as a military fire arm would mean the military would completely- and I mean completely - have to dump all their current ammunition for the new electrically fired stuff. Though it's never been broached, I also forsee issues in a battlefield EMP environment without hardening. Surprised I was able to get my stock out at a profit before it took a nosedive.
The ammunition exclusivity problem would exist in this application as well, but would be less of an issue since you're purposely making a disposible arm in a civilian app. Likewise, you'd have to get people to trust that it would fire each time, everytime. Bullet proof reliability, to float a pun. Legistlators would have a fit at the possibility of a full auto zipgun in civilian hands, so there'd have to be single shot safties hardwired in somehow. None of these are insurmountable. A 3-shot in .45 would fit into the space slightly larger than those $5.00 LED flashlights you see sold everywhere.
@ Constitutional Cowboy
You'd be interested in Metal Storm technology. Stacked bullet (end to end) technology with electric ignition. Can produce truely phenominal rates of fire. They're not exactly thriving as a company though, partly because adopting them as a military fire arm would mean the military would completely- and I mean completely - have to dump all their current ammunition for the new electrically fired stuff. Though it's never been broached, I also forsee issues in a battlefield EMP environment without hardening. Surprised I was able to get my stock out at a profit before it took a nosedive.
The ammunition exclusivity problem would exist in this application as well, but would be less of an issue since you're purposely making a disposible arm in a civilian app. Likewise, you'd have to get people to trust that it would fire each time, everytime. Bullet proof reliability, to float a pun. Legistlators would have a fit at the possibility of a full auto zipgun in civilian hands, so there'd have to be single shot safties hardwired in somehow. None of these are insurmountable. A 3-shot in .45 would fit into the space slightly larger than those $5.00 LED flashlights you see sold everywhere.
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