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Why I killed the robber (have to read this to believe it)

Discussion in 'Legal' started by GSB, Aug 1, 2004.

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  1. GSB

    GSB Member

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    I did a search on "Karen Brown" and didn't find this in L & P. If it's a dupe, one of the mods can delete it. You just have to read this to believe some the quotes from the perp's grandfather (a retired policeman).

    Addendum: read the follow up post below after reading this one. Believe it or not, it looks like they are charging this poor woman with murder.

    This story is out of Australia by the way.

    http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,10302789^661,00.html


    Why I killed the robber
    ECLUSIVE by BEN JONSTON and WARREN OWENS
    01aug04

    THE security guard who shot and killed a robber who bashed her has spoken about her ordeal for the first time.

    Shaking and crying, a traumatised Karen Brown, 42, said yesterday she had feared for her life as she was punched in the head several times by William Aquilina, who was armed with a knuckle duster.

    "I was so scared," she said of the ambush and shooting outside a hotel in Sydney's southwest last Monday morning.

    Ms Brown suffered a fractured skull, a fractured eye socket, a fractured nose, a fractured left hand and possible brain damage when the 25-year-old grabbed her hair, king-hit her and then battered her to the ground.

    The convicted criminal then dragged her across the bitumen towards a stolen getaway car before she could release a bag containing between $30,000 and $50,000 in hotel takings. Moments later, a bleeding Ms Brown, who was dressed in casual clothes and whose gun had been concealed, shot Aquilina as he sat in the car.

    Surrounded by her family, Ms Brown tried to recall the incident that left her covered in blood in the hotel car park.

    "I looked up through a bloody haze," Ms Brown said. "I did not know where I was or exactly what had happened to me. All I knew was that blood was pouring into my eyes and my head was throbbing."

    Despite her injuries, which also include severe concussion and a floating bone fragment behind her eyeball, Ms Brown said she felt sympathy for Aquilina's family and expressed remorse for what had occurred.

    "I really feel sorry for his family," said Ms Brown, who has been a security guard for four years. "It must be awful. I just wish this had never happened. It's been a terrible week."

    Ms Brown had been collecting and banking the pub's takings for the past five months.

    "Nothing like this has ever happened before and nothing prepares you for this," she said.

    Ms Brown's sister, Katrina, said the incident had been devastating.

    "It has completely wrecked her life," she said at the Sydney home Ms Brown shares with her de facto, George Muratore. "She's a complete mental and physical wreck. This is the worst thing that's ever happened in her life. She has never hurt anybody or anything before and it's completely crushed her."

    Mr Muratore's father, Vic, 73, said he believed Ms Brown should not be punished.

    "She should not be charged -- I would have done the same thing," he said. "If you pay me to protect, I have to protect. Everybody reckons she's a champion.

    "We have known her for seven years and she is a very decent person -- she is a good person.

    "I say sorry for the other people, but you deserve what you get when you do something like that."

    But Aquilina's grandfather, retired policeman Frank Rasmussen, has said Ms Brown should be charged.

    "He was murdered," Mr Rasmussen said. "That woman should have torn into that hotel as soon as she alleges she was hit and she should have asked for help. Instead, she advanced on my grandson and shot him in cold blood.

    "She's just a bitch. Sorry."

    Mr Rasmussen said he was upset by how his grandson -- who has convictions for drugs and robbery -- had been portrayed.

    "They're saying he's a rotten dangerous criminal and he's not. He's lovable," he said. "We still don't believe he's done this on his own -- he's too good a person.

    "He's never been involved in anything like this in almost 26 years that we've known him. It's not in his nature."

    Ms Brown underwent further medical tests on Thursday. Detectives are not expecting to speak to her until tomorrow.

    Channel 7 has secured Ms Brown for the only television interview, on Today Tonight, tomorrow night.
     
  2. GSB

    GSB Member

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    Oh, by the way, the NSW police are charging this woman with murder, it would seem.

    http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,10311778%5E1702,00.html

    Guard given murder charge deadline

    01aug04

    A FEMALE security guard who shot dead a robber who attacked her was set to be charged with murder, New South Wales Police said today.

    Karen Brown had until 6pm (AEST) to hand herself in to police in southwest Sydney, police said.

    So far, Ms Brown has refused to be formally interviewed by investigating officers, saying she has been in no mental or physical condition to do so.

    But she has spoken to media outlets.

    Police today said they had been told repeatedly by Ms Brown's barrister, Joseph Busuttil, that she was unfit to speak with them.

    Liverpool Police Superintendent Terry Jacobsen described it as "inappropriate" that Ms Brown had conducted an interview with a newspaper and, reportedly, been paid for another interview with Channel 7's Today Tonight program.

    "We have been advised ... that she has been unfit to speak to police for medical reasons and we have accepted that and respected it," Supt Jacobsen said today.

    However, he said the media interviews meant police "may have to proceed without the benefit of hearing from Ms Brown on these matters".

    "If she doesn't surrender herself by 6pm this evening, we will issue a court attendance notice for the offence of murder based on the evidence we have gathered to date," he said.

    The 42-year-old Rooty Hill woman shot and killed William Aquilina moments after he attacked her with a knuckleduster and stole a bag of cash she was carrying out of the Moorebank Hotel.

    The Elite Guard Force security officer's skull, an eye socket, nose and left hand were fractured and she suffered possible brain damage.

    Supt Jacobsen said investigators had waited in good faith for Ms Brown to speak with them.

    "To that extent we have attempted to contact her legal representative today to arrange for her to be present at Liverpool Police Station by 6pm this evening," he said.

    "If she comes we will give full weight to what she may or may not tell us."

    However, Supt Jacobsen said officers earlier had been told Ms Brown was unavailable until Tuesday and if she did not attend the police station they would take action without her.

    "If we are unable to serve it either because she's unavailable or because she has been squirrelled away, we will be seeking leave ... to file that court attendance notice in court," he said.

    "And if we are granted that leave, then criminal proceedings will commence, it will be subjudice and Today Tonight will publish any material at their peril."

    Supt Jacobsen said that while Ms Brown had a right not to say anything about the incident, police had an obligation to give her an opportunity to speak.

    "We have given her that opportunity but she has elected to go to the media (instead), and that's not appropriate."

    Reports that Ms Brown had been paid up to $100,000 for the television interview remained unconfirmed today.

    Comment was being sought from Ms Brown's lawyer and Channel 7.
     
  3. one-shot-one

    one-shot-one Member

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    can't say

    i can not say what i feel about family members of scumbags who spout off stupid "stuff" like this guys grandpa did, it would get me kicked off this board.
     
  4. Nightfall

    Nightfall Member

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    Yeah, your sweet, lovable, convicted robber who attempted to murder a woman by punching her to death over some money didn't deserve to be shot by his victim. :rolleyes: :barf: That guy is as much of a scum bag as his grandson would appear to be.
     
  5. Don Gwinn

    Don Gwinn Moderator Emeritus

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    I read it, and I don't believe it.

    My cousin once stole a grain truck. He was convicted of it. He went to jail. He's out now, and he's like a different person. No drugs, steady job, wife, kids, minivan.

    I do not believe he will ever do such a stupid and criminal thing again in his life. But if he gets shot crawling in somebody's window some night, I'm sure not going to call the newspaper and say "He's never been involved in anything like this before! It can't be!"

    Or maybe I will. Maybe it's human nature.


    The really bad thing is that depending on how security guards fit into the lethal force laws in Australia, they may have a valid (legal) reason to charge her. The way I read it, he beat her, then took the bag and tried to escape with it. Apparently he was in the car and she was not when she killed him. It will be hard to claim immediate self-defense. But an American police officer (maybe a security guard, too) is empowered to use lethal force to stop someone from leaving a scene where they've committed a felony.


    I leave you with a quick quote on the difference between humans and animals from Frank Herbert:

    "You may have heard of certain animals gnawing off their own limbs to escape a hunter's trap. There's an animal kind of trick! A human would remain in the trap, ignoring the pain, the better to gain an opportunity to destroy a threat to itself and its kind."
     
  6. GSB

    GSB Member

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    Given her injuries at the time, do you think she was really in a position to think through all the nuances of her legal responsibilites vis-a-vis the guy who just bashed her skull in repeatedly with brass knuckles? I don't think you'd get a charge on that in this country outside of New Jersey. Sometimes there is a BIG difference between the letter of the law and what constitutes justice.
     
  7. Firethorn

    Firethorn Member

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    I hope they take it to trial, then she can be exonerated. I also hope her company picks up the defense. Unless things are majorly different than what's stated in the article, they might have a hard time finding a jury that will convict.

    Does Australia recognize the 'temporary insanity' defense? I'd think that suffering from several hits to the head requiring surgury and 'possible brain damage', one eye useless, would count as a defense saying that she wasn't in a sane cognitive state. And at the fault of her 'victim'.
     
  8. Don Gwinn

    Don Gwinn Moderator Emeritus

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    GSB, I hope I didn't give the impression that I would have considered charging her (unless the account above is somehow dramatically wrong.)

    I was just stating the problem realistically.
     
  9. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Oh come on. He tried to murder her and she killed him. Let's call it even and get a brew!

    Maybe the grandfather was mad because his grandson got his butt kicked by a girl?
     
  10. Hawkmoon

    Hawkmoon Member

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    It appears to be something genetic, I suppose. Every time I read about some scumbag who gets shot while engaged in perpetrating a (armed assault/rape/carjacking/___ fill in crime of your choice), some relative or other invariably whines that said scumbag was "murdered" by the intended victim (who, after all, wasn't expected to resist, or events would never have taken such an unfortunate twist).

    Someone should muzzle those people. Yeah, I suppose that would be a violation of their 1st Amendment rights, but the Founding Fathers obviously overlooked the codicile requiring people who exercise their 1st Amendment rights to engage the brain before putting the mouth in gear.
     
  11. Stickjockey

    Stickjockey Member

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    From what I've read, this woman's only crime was not shooting him sooner.

    Unfortunately, it may get her prison time...:mad:
     
  12. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim Member

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    Do you think the hotel will pay for her barrister?

    Pilgrim
     
  13. Ellery Holt

    Ellery Holt Member

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    I'm gonna have to side with the LEOs on this one -- we weren't there so we don't know what really happened. All we know is what the paper published, and we all know how we can't trust them to get the story straight. Let's just wait until the facts come out and then we'll see.

    :D
     
  14. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    The woman deserves a medal, not prosecution.
     
  15. Bunny921

    Bunny921 Member

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    That story is absolutely appalling, she's treated as if she did something wrong. I agree with the only crime she committed was not shooting him sooner. I'm suprised that I haven't read that better yet the gun itself didn't just up and shoot him, because as we all know guns themselves are evil.
     
  16. joe sixpack

    joe sixpack Member

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    The law is favoring the criminals more than the persons wronged by the criminals it would appear. I think we've been seeing this for a while, and will continue to until? Perps responsible for this sort of thing deserve what ever comes back to them in return. That coupled with decent men and women carrying, might serve as a deterrent, or at least start thinning them out and eliminating the necessity for tax bucks to be spent on their malevolent souls.
    This sort of thing riles me to no end.

    cheers, ab
     
  17. lbmii

    lbmii Member

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    Yes this type of nonsense is coming soon to your hometown if it has not all ready.
     
  18. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    How do you think the robber got that way in the first place?
     
  19. Jeff

    Jeff Member

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    Exactly.


    The laws everywhere have removed the human factor from self-defense and have completely reduced it to a matter of quantum physics.

    "She should have shot him before the greater threat was over, otherwise it's over, and she has no right shooting him because she is still conscious."
     
  20. Pendragon

    Pendragon Member

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    The last thing the anti gun rulers in Australia want is an heroic woman who defends her life with a gun.

    They need to charge her to taint her.

    People like this simply are not helpful.
     
  21. twoblink

    twoblink Member

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    And send the bill to the grandpa!

    The apple don't fall too far from the tree I see..

    If my son or grandson ever attempted to rob/mug someone, I swear I'd beat him to death myself..

    The lack of responsibility is just amazing..

    For me, I think she's a hero.. She prevented possible future deaths of others..

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Open note to the grandfather of the scum:

    Your grandson was a scum and after your comments, now I know why. You are irresponsible and you passed on that igorance to your now DEAD grandson. If you think being beaten to death is acceptable, please let me know, I know quite a few people who would be happy to beat you to death with brass knuckles... It's trash like you and your family that reduces the oxygen supply in the world, wastes our tax dollars, and degrades society. Your existance lowers the world in both value and time.
     
  22. agricola

    agricola Member

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    she wont get convicted of murder - but she could well be done for manslaughter, and making your first statement to the press, rather than those whose job it is to investigate the incident, is hardly likely to endear her to the courts.

    I would also point out that, from her statement, she did not defend herself.
     
  23. PATH

    PATH Member

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    It is a shame I won't be on that jury. I would not find her guilty of a blessed thing. Half concious and she shoots the creature that has attempted to kill her. She has extensive injuries to the head which I am sure would keep anyone form thinking clearly in any case.

    No. I would not vote to charge her with a single thing. I hope there are enough Aussies who still have some guts. I hope she is let go on this one!
    I'll be praying for her!
     
  24. feedthehogs

    feedthehogs Member

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    No one deserves to be beaten like she was.
    Threat over or not this guy would have done this again to someone else.
    She saved someones life down the road and should be given a medal.
     
  25. Iain

    Iain Member

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    The murder charge will not be upheld if the facts of the case are as above. Manslaughter may well be though, as Ag says. I doubt that though, as someone else says she had been beaten around the head savagely and will thus be able to argue, and fairly, that she was not totally rational - how could she have been?


    "From what I've read, this woman's only crime was not shooting him sooner." - True, if she had shot him during the assault, or when her life was arguably in danger she would not be facing these charges.
     
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