Al Thompson
Moderator Emeritus
Thanks jato. Always good to get some real world results.
Why is #8 bad for HD?
- Thread starter Moparmike
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Squirrels are often not immediately killed, or even stopped with #8 shot. I've seen a squirrel in a tree shot with #8 shot from the ground (albeit from a 20-gauge) that managed to hang onto a branch with his forepaw for some time after being hit. It took another shot to bring him down. This was from perhaps 30 feet. When squirrels are hit with birdshot, the pellets are often found lodged between the skin and muscle. It seems they penetrate the skin, than deflect in strange patterns partially circumventing the body between the skin and muscle.
Rabbits are another matter entirely.
Why someone would use a load that is marginal on small rodents to defend himself against 200-pound mammals is beyond me.
Birdshot is for birds. Thats why its called birdshot.
Rabbits are another matter entirely.
Why someone would use a load that is marginal on small rodents to defend himself against 200-pound mammals is beyond me.
Birdshot is for birds. Thats why its called birdshot.
Al Thompson
Moderator Emeritus
It's all about distance. 
I've killed racoons with low brass #8s at very close range. Not once or twice, but several times. FWIW, our prison guards use birdshot for duty inside the prison.
I've killed racoons with low brass #8s at very close range. Not once or twice, but several times. FWIW, our prison guards use birdshot for duty inside the prison.kotengu
Member.
"No its about MOMENTUM transferred to the target since thats the physical quantity that tells you how much something was thrown around by an impact. At 20 yards I would imagine its really a function of poor velocity retention by small shot and too large a pattern at that range."
You are exactly right, I should have been more careful with my words. From basic physics, MOMENTUM is the only thing conserved in a collision (what we are studying here). ENERGY is rarely conserved, as much is lost in heat and sound, as well as during deformation of the colliding objects.
My main point with the TRANSFERRED comment was that many people talk about how powerful a round is by quoting its "energy" in ft-lbs at a given distance. What they don't say is how much of that ideal "energy" actually gets imparted on the target. In a FMJ rifle bullet, for instance, very little energy gets transferred to the target as the bullet will retain much of its own energy as it zips right through. Or I guess more appropriate here, if it's a rapidly expanding zone of birdshot, only the pellets that hit the target could possibly transfer the small amount of energy they have, and they probably won't transfer all of that energy to the target anyway.
Thanks for pointing that out - I let myself slip into the lazy wordings that frustrate me so much sometimes......
You are exactly right, I should have been more careful with my words. From basic physics, MOMENTUM is the only thing conserved in a collision (what we are studying here). ENERGY is rarely conserved, as much is lost in heat and sound, as well as during deformation of the colliding objects.
My main point with the TRANSFERRED comment was that many people talk about how powerful a round is by quoting its "energy" in ft-lbs at a given distance. What they don't say is how much of that ideal "energy" actually gets imparted on the target. In a FMJ rifle bullet, for instance, very little energy gets transferred to the target as the bullet will retain much of its own energy as it zips right through. Or I guess more appropriate here, if it's a rapidly expanding zone of birdshot, only the pellets that hit the target could possibly transfer the small amount of energy they have, and they probably won't transfer all of that energy to the target anyway.
Thanks for pointing that out - I let myself slip into the lazy wordings that frustrate me so much sometimes......
sm
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I have said before here that due to arthritis mom can't due the revolver like she once could. NEF youth model 20 ga is always handy and she handles it well. It has the 2 3/4 " # 3 buck. We discussed the selection. She lives alone. Basically she is more concerned about stopping the threat, than remodling...but she lives alone.
jato, Al ... good points made.
I have worked in a OR, GSWs do not always duplicate what one thinks, reads about or puts pen to figures. ( math). Contact the BGs body with promo dove/quail load , and pull trigger, and it will stop an immmediate threat. but I've seen poorly placed buckshot results too. Seen the guy shot with 45 ,live and the guy shot with 22lr die.
It always boils down to 1) Shot placement, 2) testing for a particular gun and that choke as to what happens at a certain distance with that combination. Yeah rabid racoons at close range and #8 work. So does a 20 ga slug at 15 yds. But I knew the gun /loads/patterns and placed the shot. Would #3 buckshot have worked,probably...didn't have any that time out.
In a prison yeah birdshot I can see being a very good control load. Bunch of farmers used to shoot birdshot and rock salt to keep melons in the patch too. Not that I know anything about that of course
How many people have actually tested their choice ( pattern board), how many have taken game with that choice...
jato, Al ... good points made.
I have worked in a OR, GSWs do not always duplicate what one thinks, reads about or puts pen to figures. ( math). Contact the BGs body with promo dove/quail load , and pull trigger, and it will stop an immmediate threat. but I've seen poorly placed buckshot results too. Seen the guy shot with 45 ,live and the guy shot with 22lr die.
It always boils down to 1) Shot placement, 2) testing for a particular gun and that choke as to what happens at a certain distance with that combination. Yeah rabid racoons at close range and #8 work. So does a 20 ga slug at 15 yds. But I knew the gun /loads/patterns and placed the shot. Would #3 buckshot have worked,probably...didn't have any that time out.
In a prison yeah birdshot I can see being a very good control load. Bunch of farmers used to shoot birdshot and rock salt to keep melons in the patch too. Not that I know anything about that of course
How many people have actually tested their choice ( pattern board), how many have taken game with that choice...
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