Same with Springfield XD's.
Why is dry firing bad?
- Thread starter EGGMAN240
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1 accidental dry fire will not break a firing pin on any gun, even those designed not to be dry fired. A defective, firing pin can break at any time. I'm quite confident this is what happened here. You should be glad your dad and brother found out it was defective by dry firing instead of when they really needed it to work. It would have broken the next time it was live fired.
Depends on the gun. I have some fancy, hand made Italian shotguns that ONE (1) dry fire will result in a broken firing pin. A new pin has to be hand made by a highly skilled gunsmith. The Italian makers could not dream of someone so crass as to dry fire one of their fine guns. There is no provision for cushioning the firing pin if dry fired. When you take the gun apart to clean it, you remove the forearm before removing the barrels, this allows removal without cocking the gun, put it back together after cleaning and if some rube does pick it up and pull the trigger nothing happens (except you cross him off your guest list, permanently.) No, I do not use "snap caps", I've seen some corroded chambers from those being left in a shotgun. Just learn proper gun handling manners: When offered a gun for inspection, handle by the wood only, NEVER touch the metal and NEVER dry fire any gun. Assume it's loaded, handle accordingly, do not work the action unless the owner permits it. After going to the trouble of putting the gun away without cocking it, the last thing I want you to do is break the action open and cock the damn thing. If I want you to look inside, I will break it open before handing it to you.
bergmen
Member.
Correct! Case in point my Dad's Marlin 1936 that some here swear won't break a firing pin if dry fired. I guess the two times that it did happen are just figments of my imagination.
Here's another, quoted out of the owners manual of my NAA Guardian, page 6:
Note: Dry firing can cause breakage of the firing pin. To safely practice trigger pull, insert a spent (fired) case or a commercially available snap-cap into the chamber to cushion the impact of the firing pin.
In another of my owners manuals (Freedom Arms Model 83 5 Shot Revolver), page 18, paragraph 4:
It is not advisable to dry-fire your revolver, as this may damage the firing pin. Freedom Arms has snap caps avaialble for all center-fire calibers.
No conjecture here, this is straight from the manufacturers.
Dan
Texas Gun Person
Member
Meh. Just go by what the manufacturer says.
Some say it's fine for their guns, while others say don't do it on theirs. Just depends on the weapon.
Some say it's fine for their guns, while others say don't do it on theirs. Just depends on the weapon.
Lost Sheep
Member
makarovnik is the only one
The question was not "Is it bad or is it OK?" It was "Why is it bad?"
Aside from the Marlin mentioned early in the thread, breaking firing pins and rimfire weapons (not just 22 rimfire, but all rimfires, probably) where the firing pin can hit the metal of the chamber/barrel where the rimfire round rests/headspaces,
PEENING. Look it up on the internet. It hardens metal, and makes it brittle. It is possibly better known as cold-working, but peening has a narrower definition.
You can damage the shoulder where the firing pin is stopped (in the absence of a primer being present) by hard steel or you can have peening where the hammer hits the frame with the full energy of the mainspring (with nothing being absorbed by brass, a much softer metal).
That's why it is bad, when it is bad. Some manufacturers have designed their guns and made them of metals that resist damage from peening. Some manufacturers have not.
Lost Sheep
The question was not "Is it bad or is it OK?" It was "Why is it bad?"
Aside from the Marlin mentioned early in the thread, breaking firing pins and rimfire weapons (not just 22 rimfire, but all rimfires, probably) where the firing pin can hit the metal of the chamber/barrel where the rimfire round rests/headspaces,
PEENING. Look it up on the internet. It hardens metal, and makes it brittle. It is possibly better known as cold-working, but peening has a narrower definition.
You can damage the shoulder where the firing pin is stopped (in the absence of a primer being present) by hard steel or you can have peening where the hammer hits the frame with the full energy of the mainspring (with nothing being absorbed by brass, a much softer metal).
That's why it is bad, when it is bad. Some manufacturers have designed their guns and made them of metals that resist damage from peening. Some manufacturers have not.
Lost Sheep
Carl N. Brown
Member
My experience includes basicly the points others have made:
Some designs depend on the firing pin being cushioned by crushing a primer, and can be properly dry fired only with the use of a snap cap, or in the case of rimfires, a fired cartridge case.
Other guns are engineered to be dry fired for practice .
Always check with the instruction manual or contact the manufacturer to see if the make and model has been approved for dry fire without a snap cap.
When in doubt, assume no dry fire. Good case in point: the CZ52 pistol made 1952-1954: the firing pins were cast steel and do not stand up to dry firing. A good reason on that model to make sure the slide catch always locks the slide open after the last shot is fired. Snapping on an empty chamber eventually leads to firing pin failaure.
Some designs depend on the firing pin being cushioned by crushing a primer, and can be properly dry fired only with the use of a snap cap, or in the case of rimfires, a fired cartridge case.
Other guns are engineered to be dry fired for practice .
Always check with the instruction manual or contact the manufacturer to see if the make and model has been approved for dry fire without a snap cap.
When in doubt, assume no dry fire. Good case in point: the CZ52 pistol made 1952-1954: the firing pins were cast steel and do not stand up to dry firing. A good reason on that model to make sure the slide catch always locks the slide open after the last shot is fired. Snapping on an empty chamber eventually leads to firing pin failaure.
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7mmstalker
Member
My wife has a Marlin 30-30 made in the 1940's, used by my young son during a few western movies to "shoot" the bad guys. Shortly after, we discovered the tip of the firing pin had left the area.
I suspect the breakage was caused as much by metal fatigue as his dry-firing it a few hundred times in a day. However, he now has a different view of the value of dryfiring for trigger practice, and a couple of snap-caps.
I suspect the breakage was caused as much by metal fatigue as his dry-firing it a few hundred times in a day. However, he now has a different view of the value of dryfiring for trigger practice, and a couple of snap-caps.
pioneer461
Member
Dry firing is a very legitimate training drill. If you have doubts, buy some "snap caps" and dry-fire away.
Jim Watson
Member
Sad but true, not every gun can be dryfired even though it is beneficial practice.
I had a couple of those expensive Italian guns when I was active in trapshooting and always bore in mind the horror story of broken firing pins from dryfiring. I have heard similarly of a major German make.
I don't think a Marlin should break the firing pin on one drop, but a gunsmith once replied to a gunzine article about how much better rifle a Marlin lever action was than a Winchester. He said he lost count of the firing pins and extractors he had put in Marlins but over his career had replaced one Winchester firing pin and two extractors total.
The Star pistols that so many people think are 1911s are not good to dryfire. The firing pin might not break soon but when it does, you have to drift out the rear sight to get at the firing pin retaining pin that probably cost them several pesetas less than a Colt type firing pin retainer.
I had a couple of those expensive Italian guns when I was active in trapshooting and always bore in mind the horror story of broken firing pins from dryfiring. I have heard similarly of a major German make.
I don't think a Marlin should break the firing pin on one drop, but a gunsmith once replied to a gunzine article about how much better rifle a Marlin lever action was than a Winchester. He said he lost count of the firing pins and extractors he had put in Marlins but over his career had replaced one Winchester firing pin and two extractors total.
The Star pistols that so many people think are 1911s are not good to dryfire. The firing pin might not break soon but when it does, you have to drift out the rear sight to get at the firing pin retaining pin that probably cost them several pesetas less than a Colt type firing pin retainer.
Not all modern pistols can be dry fired regularly.
XD's can break their striker retaining pin if you dry fire regularly. Dry firing an XD occasionally for breakdown and cleaning doesn't matter much and is directed in the manual. Use snap caps if you plan on dry firing regularly.
Someone will undoubtedly say "I have dry fired thousands of times on my XD with no failures so this post is a lie." My answer would be to dry fire more and Google search it for yourself.
Cheers
XD's can break their striker retaining pin if you dry fire regularly. Dry firing an XD occasionally for breakdown and cleaning doesn't matter much and is directed in the manual. Use snap caps if you plan on dry firing regularly.
Someone will undoubtedly say "I have dry fired thousands of times on my XD with no failures so this post is a lie." My answer would be to dry fire more and Google search it for yourself.
Cheers
zignal_zero
Member
Ill admit I kinda skimmed over some of the longer posts, but I didn't see anyone mention the photo of the Glock with the knocked out breech face, is that correct? Very significant damage from being excessively dry fired.
When I get back to my PC ill see if I can post it up. Its what got me to stop dry firing (well, that and buying more ammo).
When I get back to my PC ill see if I can post it up. Its what got me to stop dry firing (well, that and buying more ammo).
45_auto
Member
How much does striking a primer reduce the force transmitted to the firing pin? By a factor of 10? Maybe 100, or 1000?
Does that mean that if I'm worried about breaking my firing pin by dry firing, should I be equally worried about it breaking after live firing 10 or 100 or 1000 rounds?
How often do any manufacturers recommend replacing the firing pin? I've never seen anything about it in any of my gun manuals.
If it's such a big deal, is there a market for firing pins made out of better materials? Many years ago I made one for a friend who managed lose the one out of an old automatic pistol (don't remember what it was). I just used a piece of tool steel that was lying around the shop, he hasn't mentioned any problems with it in over 25 years. Lots of industrial applications use punches similar to firing pins that perform for a lifetime in an impact environment much more severe than a firing pin being struck by a hammer in a gun. Is it mainly a matter of some manufacturers trying to save pennies on the material of a firing pin?
Does that mean that if I'm worried about breaking my firing pin by dry firing, should I be equally worried about it breaking after live firing 10 or 100 or 1000 rounds?
How often do any manufacturers recommend replacing the firing pin? I've never seen anything about it in any of my gun manuals.
If it's such a big deal, is there a market for firing pins made out of better materials? Many years ago I made one for a friend who managed lose the one out of an old automatic pistol (don't remember what it was). I just used a piece of tool steel that was lying around the shop, he hasn't mentioned any problems with it in over 25 years. Lots of industrial applications use punches similar to firing pins that perform for a lifetime in an impact environment much more severe than a firing pin being struck by a hammer in a gun. Is it mainly a matter of some manufacturers trying to save pennies on the material of a firing pin?
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