Why is sending a rifle to an FFL always like $70

[Dave P]

Hawkeye, I have used multiple US Post offices around here for rifles. No problems. One time one lady looked up the regs, but everything was legit.

Just shipped an expensive insurred rifle to CA, cost $40 I think.

Dave

 

[clange]

Is there a legal requirement to inform shippers that the box contains a firearm? USPS or UPS, rifles or handguns, any difference in requirements?

 

[cbsbyte]

Alot of Misinformation on the page

I have never had a problem sending a rifle, handgun or TOW missile launcher through UPS or Fedex. I have never tried shpping by US Mail since I know people localy who have tried to no avail to have them accept the package. I did have one issue several years ago while trying to ship a handgun at a Mail Boxes Etc. But that was due to company policy not allowing gun shipments. Please remember that most Shipping/packing stores such as Kinkos, The UPS Store, and etc will not accept firearms for shipping. You have to go to an acutal UPS, or Fedex customer counter at the companies shipping facility. That can be a pain for people who live in rural areas, since you either have to drive a distance to the facility or pay an extra fee to have UPS/Fedex pick up the package. Also, UPS/FedEx require all handgun shippments to go by Overnight service. Longguns can still go by Ground service.

One can still ship longarms through Fedex ground. Click on the Ground Tariff link.

http://www.fedex.com/us/services/terms/

 

[iamkris]

My trick is that I print out the FAQs from the BATF website on shipping guns and also have the phone number available to the BATFE office. I've found that both UPS and USPS personnel to be completely untrained on shipping firearms but if you are willing to invest a little time educating them, they will come around (in my expereince). I never been fully turned away...initially refused or told I need to ship overnight, yes...never turned away. I just had to use facts, persistence and a confident manner to turn them around to the truth. I'm starting to relish the challenge. I used to be ashamed to wanted to hide the fact that I was shipping a firearm...now it's kind of fun. Empowering even, to do something so politically incorrect (at least it is up here in nborthern Chicago suburbs)..

 

[Prof]

thatguy: Have you been going to "UPS Stores" rather than UPS service counters ? The "stores" that they have conveniently opened in towns will not accept any firearms or airguns for shipments. But service counters at the actual UPS locations will gladly ship firearms: rifles by ground, handguns by overnight air. I ship both powder-burners and airguns UPS all the time and I'm not an FFL or C&R holder.

 

[dakotasin]

clange- no, at least not thru usps as long as you are shipping a rifle.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

Why does my local gun shop insist that the used rifle I just bought be sent to them FROM an FFL? I've sent rifles to FFLs without having an FFL send it out for me many times. I don't understand their reasons for this policy.

 

[bobhaverford]

I ship to a FFL ALWAYS. I never include the word gun if the FFL is so designated. For instance when shipping to ABC Gun Shop I simply change the name to the ABC Sporting Shop. FedEx Ground is always faster from where I live than UPS AND less expensive. I always insure for the cost of the gun. I'm shipping mainly long guns these days. Last time I shipped a pistol I shipped via USPS Priority Mail. I hope I'm not breaking any laws. I just don't want to break any federal laws.

 

[bobhaverford]

Why does my local gun shop insist that the used rifle I just bought be sent to them FROM and FFL? I've sent rifles to FFLs without having an FFL send it out for me many times. I don't understand their reasons for this policy.

Go to gunbroker.com under the selling section. There they have the ATF regulations chapter and verse clearly explained. I've been told twice that I have to ship FROM a FFL. Not true. Any owner of a fireaarm can legally send his firearm to a FFL. Both times I broke out the section from gunbroker.com and sent it to them. Once the FFL told me he had an ATF agent there who said that it had to come from a FFL. I sent him the relevant information and he said go ahead and send it. He said the ATF agent acknowledged that he was mistaken.

 

[Car Knocker]

I ship via FedEx Ground and simply do not declare the contents. I hope I'm not breaking any laws. I don't mind bending the FedEx rules or even breaking them. I just don't want to break any federal laws.

You are. 27 C.F.R. Part 171.31: Delivery by common or contract carrier.

(a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to
any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in
interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed
importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector,
any package or other container in which there is any firearm or
ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or
ammunition is being transported or shipped:

 

[stolivar]

a lot of BS

You have to declare that you are shipping a gun, no matter who you ship throught it it the law. The Post Office will ship long guns. If the PM doesn't want to make sure you have him look it up. It is in the manuals. If he refuses get his bosses phone number and make his life miserable. I see a whole lot of BS all the time on that you can ship it as machine parts and people that give out advice but doesn't know what they are talking about but still give it out anyway. You can ship long guns through the mail. handguns has to go through FED EX etc.


It is not that hard to look up the facts with the internet.


Steve the Mailman 25 + years

 

[thatguy]

BobHaverford- Yes you are breaking federal law by mailing a handgun. Only an FFL can send pistols via the U.S. Mail.

 

[armoredman]

Sportsman's Warehouse gave me a ration when I wanted to recieve a rifle from a person in another state, the same as posted above, that they would NOT recieve from anyone other than another FFL. I showed them the relevant regs, and was told, "We know, it's just our policy." OK, can't argue with that, it IS thier store. I ended up getting a C&R version I could have shipped to me, instead, and I still buy everything I can at SW - great prices.

 

[ScottsGT]

Om another note, I tried to insure a pakage of "Precision Machined parts" for $1000 thru FedEx, and they wanted me to open the package for them to inspect it if it was over $500. It went insured for $500.

 

[bobhaverford]

BobHaverford- Yes you are breaking federal law by mailing a handgun. Only an FFL can send pistols via the U.S. Mail.

I've shipped handguns before but have always declared them and have done so via Priority Mail. According to the regs posted at gunbroker.com it is legal for the owner of a gun to ship to a FFL.

 

[ScottsGT]

I've shipped handguns before but have always declared them and have done so via Priority Mail. According to the regs posted at gunbroker.com it is legal for the owner of a gun to ship to a FFL.

Uhhhh, Bob, you might want to read it a little closer. Here is the cut/paste straight from gunbroker.com:

B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service?
A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.

I just don't want to see a fellow THR'er get busted for a misread!

 

[thatguy]

Bob- As ScotsGT repeated, you are breaking federal law by mailing a handgun. Only FFLs may mail pistols. If you declared them and the clerks at the POs accepted them you're doing better than me. None have accepted my rifles even though that's a legal shipment while yours was not.

 

[bobhaverford]

Here's a cut and paste from the gunbroker.com web site:

Shipping Legalities
Federal Law requires that all modern firearms be shipped only to a holder of a valid Federal Firearms License (FFL). The recipient must be have an FFL; however the sender is not required to have one. Any person who is legally allowed to own a firearm is legally allowed to ship it to an FFL holder for any legal purpose (including sale or resale).

Here is exactly what the ATF 'Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' (ATF P 5300.4) says:
(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service? [Back]
A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.​

MY read is that it is legal for the owner of a firearm to ship a handgun to a FFL by common carrier but not by US Mail. Is this not correct? Thanks.

 

[ScottsGT]

MY read is that it is legal for the owner of a firearm to ship a handgun to a FFL by common carrier but not by US Mail. Is this not correct? Thanks.

Correct!
US Postal service- Non FFL's - only long guns
Common carrier (UPS, FedEx) - Handguns, long guns AND you must notify them that you are shipping a firearm.

 

[thatguy]

Bob- CARRIER means UPS or Fed-Ex, not U.S. Mail. Only FFLs can send handguns via the U.S. Mail. An FFL is not required to send a gun, but if it's a pistol it must go by common carrier, like UPS, not USPS (U.S. mail).

 

[stolivar]

that guy

Hey get ahold of the PM and make him or her look up the regs on mailing long guns. and make them abide by it


steve the mailman;

 

[thatguy]

The problem is that USPS regs state that individual postmasters cannot determine mailing policies. Sounds crazy, but that's what it says. It means that you can't ask the PM what is proper or legal and whatever he or she has in his or head is what he or she will do. You can't, by USPS policy, ask them to look anything up or ask them to clarify.

As I said before, every PO I have encountered has refused to look at the regs. They just KNOW FOR A FACT what the rules are. Period. End of discussion. No argument.

 

[swingset]

The problem is that USPS regs state that individual postmasters cannot determine mailing policies. Sounds crazy, but that's what it says. It means that you can't ask the PM what is proper or legal and whatever he or she has in his or head is what he or she will do. You can't, by USPS policy, ask them to look anything up or ask them to clarify.

As I said before, every PO I have encountered has refused to look at the regs. They just KNOW FOR A FACT what the rules are. Period. End of discussion. No argument.

I've never had that problem, in 15 years of shipping guns. Sometimes the PM is not sure, or has the wrong information but I've yet to encounter one that would not seek clarification when pressed. FWIW, I've never been refused shipping....sometimes delayed a bit, but never refused.

You should move up the chain if the local PM will not do his job correctly. If you just give up, you lose and so does the next guy. It pays to be a squeaky wheel.

 

[rezman]

I live in a rural area in WA State. Tried to mail a rifle via USPS, PM politely declined. I requested that she contact her supervisor. He backed her up. I showed her the portion of the their regulations that said it was legal to mail a rifle. We even called the local ATF office. Get this, agent said USPS was correct and a rifle could not be mailed.

At this point I was sick of bureacrats, and just drove thirty miles to the UPS depot. Just because its legal doesn't mean its worth the stress.

 

[m39fan]

IF you only have UPS Stores or drop point in your local area, you CAN ship firearms through them. KINDA. Here's what I mean - UPS has stated that the drop points/UPS Stores can't/won't ship firearms using their accounts. IF you sign up for your own UPS Internet Account, you can print out your prepaid shipping label and drop it anywhere. At that point YOU are shipping it, not the store/drop point. It is just another UPS package. They have nothing to do with it. It's also MUCH cheaper if you have your own account. I've never paid over $25 for a rifle even to California.

One other thing, UPS regs say that long guns can go ground but must be marked Adult Signature (over 21) Required. It's only a couple of bucks and if you're sending to a dealer working out their home or a C&R, it's cheap insurance against a rifle just sitting on a porch somewhere.

HTH,
Mike