For the most part shotguns are used for shooting moving game, mostly birds on the wing. While the short barreled shotgun gives it advantage at close ranges it degrades accuracy at longer ranges. If there was any advantage or even no disadvantage to short barrel shotguns at longer ranges you would see them on the trap line used in money shoots or by serious meet shooters.
Why no short (18-20"), choked barrels?
- Thread starter Sergeant Sabre
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Joe Foraday
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Recently saw a Remington Express 870 Youth in 20ga that had a factory 21" vent rib barrel with chokes (gun was cheap, too, in near new condition). The short stock makes the thing pretty compact (40" LOA). A potentially Very Useful Shotgun.
If I recall correctly, Benelli went to choke tubes on their defensive/assault shotguns some years ago. And Remington Police 870s are fixed-choke IC, not cylinder bore. The 870 Express Turkey has a 21" choked barrel but I don't think they sell those barrels separately.
MAX100
Member
There are two things that should be standard on all shotgun barrels. The forcing cone should be lengthened and they should all come with choke tubes.
I had my Mossberg 930 SPX tapped for Accu-Chokes and the forcing cone lengthened to 4". Great improvement.
GC
I had my Mossberg 930 SPX tapped for Accu-Chokes and the forcing cone lengthened to 4". Great improvement.
GC
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Zak Smith
Member
My Benelli M1S90 has chokes...
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
A fixed choke is good enough for a police type gun and not having to deal with more parts and maintenance is probably a good thing for issued guns.....but I agree that the 20 inch choked barrels should be an easy to order option for people that want a more compact hunting gun.
jakemccoy
Member
Seargent wrote,
I have a 28" barrel, a 20" barrel and a 18.2" barrel for my shotguns. The difference in feel is negligible between the 20" and 18.1". However, like you, I aways had that wonder in my head before I got the 18.1" barrel. Try out both if you can in order to see what I'm saying. I actually prefer using the 20" because it's 2" above legal (as opposed to 0.1" above legal).
I have a 28" barrel, a 20" barrel and a 18.2" barrel for my shotguns. The difference in feel is negligible between the 20" and 18.1". However, like you, I aways had that wonder in my head before I got the 18.1" barrel. Try out both if you can in order to see what I'm saying. I actually prefer using the 20" because it's 2" above legal (as opposed to 0.1" above legal).
rantingredneck
Member
I have an 18.5" mossberg accuchoke (the one Sargeant Sabre called havlin about)
I have an 18" Rem 870 express
I have a 20" Rem 870 express
I have a 21" Rem 11-87 SP.
I can say that I feel a big difference between them.
The 20" 870 is the heavier gun than even the 21" 11-87. Of course it has a sidesaddle where the 11-87 does not.
The Mossberg 500 also has a sidesaddle but it is the lightest and quickest handling of the 4, possibly due to it's lighter aluminum construction combined with the shorter barrel.
It was my deer shotgun this past season as I was recovering from my treestand fall and back surgery. The difference in weight was a blessing when stomping through the woods and briars all day (we do a lot of man driving deer in the late season).
The one deer I killed with it (small doe) was on the run at about 30yds. I was standing on a berm at the edge of a thicket and she was running below me. I actually thought about letting her go because she was young, then I remembered that the season was rapidly ending and the freezer was light. The handiness of that gun I believe allowed me extra time to think before I shouldered and went bang.
.
She was tasty.
I have an 18" Rem 870 express
I have a 20" Rem 870 express
I have a 21" Rem 11-87 SP.
I can say that I feel a big difference between them.
The 20" 870 is the heavier gun than even the 21" 11-87. Of course it has a sidesaddle where the 11-87 does not.
The Mossberg 500 also has a sidesaddle but it is the lightest and quickest handling of the 4, possibly due to it's lighter aluminum construction combined with the shorter barrel.
It was my deer shotgun this past season as I was recovering from my treestand fall and back surgery. The difference in weight was a blessing when stomping through the woods and briars all day (we do a lot of man driving deer in the late season).
The one deer I killed with it (small doe) was on the run at about 30yds. I was standing on a berm at the edge of a thicket and she was running below me. I actually thought about letting her go because she was young, then I remembered that the season was rapidly ending and the freezer was light. The handiness of that gun I believe allowed me extra time to think before I shouldered and went bang.
. She was tasty.
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jakemccoy
Member
Ranting,
Is the difference in feel due to barrel length or overall gun type?
Barrel length is the relevant topic. Compare your 870 Express shotguns (18" and 20") so that you're not comparing apples and oranges.
-Jake
Is the difference in feel due to barrel length or overall gun type?
Barrel length is the relevant topic. Compare your 870 Express shotguns (18" and 20") so that you're not comparing apples and oranges.
-Jake
Joe Foraday
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Just checked the Remington website - there is an Express Jr that has an 18.5" VR RemChoke tube (it's also a 20 ga).
rantingredneck
Member
Well barrel length certainly contributes. I guess I should have been clearer in that my 20" 870 is also heavier than the 18" 870 and the center of balance is better on the 18". for me at least.
That all being said I still use my 20 and 21" guns.
If I had my druthers though I'd have an 18" remchoke barrel for both 870's
That all being said I still use my 20 and 21" guns.
If I had my druthers though I'd have an 18" remchoke barrel for both 870's
Sergeant Sabre
Member
Well, I guess I'll be finding out what the difference is soon enough.
Since the 18.5" accu-choke has proven to be as attainable as a unicorn, I've ordered the 20" vent-rib accu-choke directly from Mossberg for a discounted price since all of their retailers are out of them. It even comes with three chokes (IC, mod., and full) Hopefully it will be here in time for the tail-end of turkey season.
This barrel will make my 500 just a hair over 39" overall. My Browning Gold with 28" barrel is 49" long. Hopefully the 500 will carry better through deep snow and into thick brush after rabbits, and will handle nicely inside of a turkey blind.
Since the 18.5" accu-choke has proven to be as attainable as a unicorn, I've ordered the 20" vent-rib accu-choke directly from Mossberg for a discounted price since all of their retailers are out of them. It even comes with three chokes (IC, mod., and full) Hopefully it will be here in time for the tail-end of turkey season.
This barrel will make my 500 just a hair over 39" overall. My Browning Gold with 28" barrel is 49" long. Hopefully the 500 will carry better through deep snow and into thick brush after rabbits, and will handle nicely inside of a turkey blind.
jakemccoy
Member
Segeant,
I mistakenly posted above that I had a 18.1" removable choke barrel. (I fixed the post.) It's actually fixed IC choke, and I forgot because I have a few barrels. I now remember deciding that I don't want this particular barrel to have a removable choke. For me, its use is limited mainly to home defense - the simpler, the better. I have other barrels for the versatility. Regarding barrels, I think of them as being another gun. With that in mind, $200 or so for a barrel is inexpensive. However, for you, I can tell you're trying to save a bit of cash.
-Jake
I mistakenly posted above that I had a 18.1" removable choke barrel. (I fixed the post.) It's actually fixed IC choke, and I forgot because I have a few barrels. I now remember deciding that I don't want this particular barrel to have a removable choke. For me, its use is limited mainly to home defense - the simpler, the better. I have other barrels for the versatility. Regarding barrels, I think of them as being another gun. With that in mind, $200 or so for a barrel is inexpensive. However, for you, I can tell you're trying to save a bit of cash.
-Jake
ahhh you can install thin wall choke tubes in ajust about any modern shotgun barrel except the ultra light "upland" barrels that were out a few years ago. I have chopped off a lot of 30 inch full choke VR 870 barrels and 1100 barrels and cut threads for tubes for them. Its about a 20 minute job.
Sergeant Sabre
Member
This is actually my third barrel for this shotgun. The 28" that came on it, the 18.5" cylinder, and now the 20".
I guess the money thing isn't that big an issue. It just would have bugged the crap out of me knowing that I paid $155 + shipping for a barrel that is listed for $127 just because Mossberg can't / won't keep their dealers stocked with this particular item.
I really like the compact-ness of the short barrels, but the versatility is terribly lacking with a cylinder bore. I realize this is fine for many, since the short barrels are usually for home defense. I was satisfied with mine in this role for a number of years. I just want to add some versatility to this compact, powerful package. That means adding some sort of choke option so that it will pattern buckshot further for outside-the-home use if need be (civil crisis, SHTF stuff), pattern game loads well enough to cleanly take a rabbit or squirrel, pattern tightly with the X-full chokes I have and handle well in a turkey blind, while retaining the ability to shoot slugs.
It is my hope that the 20" accu-choke barrel will do all of the above, making this shotgun a very light, handy, compact, powerful, and extremely versatile package. An (almost) all-in-one gun with just a change of choke or ammunition.
I have other guns for other stuff, so why the desire for an all-in-one gun? I dunno, I just like the versatility!
I guess the money thing isn't that big an issue. It just would have bugged the crap out of me knowing that I paid $155 + shipping for a barrel that is listed for $127 just because Mossberg can't / won't keep their dealers stocked with this particular item.
I really like the compact-ness of the short barrels, but the versatility is terribly lacking with a cylinder bore. I realize this is fine for many, since the short barrels are usually for home defense. I was satisfied with mine in this role for a number of years. I just want to add some versatility to this compact, powerful package. That means adding some sort of choke option so that it will pattern buckshot further for outside-the-home use if need be (civil crisis, SHTF stuff), pattern game loads well enough to cleanly take a rabbit or squirrel, pattern tightly with the X-full chokes I have and handle well in a turkey blind, while retaining the ability to shoot slugs.
It is my hope that the 20" accu-choke barrel will do all of the above, making this shotgun a very light, handy, compact, powerful, and extremely versatile package. An (almost) all-in-one gun with just a change of choke or ammunition.
I have other guns for other stuff, so why the desire for an all-in-one gun? I dunno, I just like the versatility!
mikle76
Member
Amen brothers. I personally would be most interested in vent rib short barrels. That would give you the option of speed in the squirrel woods and with the easy additions of rifle sights (attached to the rib) the accuracy needed for slugs are for a super-tight turkey load. I once tried a short barrel rifle sighted gun for tree rats and boy was I suprised at how slow rifle sights are on fast moving targets.
Sergeant Sabre
Member
Oh ya: Besides, it's my patriotic duty to spend some of that economic stimulus money, right
icebones
Member
by the way pete f,
ive threaded rifle/handgun barrels before,
what thread pitch is most common shotgun Chokes?
i could assume that diffrent brands use diffrent pitches, remington accu choke, invector choke ect...
ive threaded rifle/handgun barrels before,
what thread pitch is most common shotgun Chokes?
i could assume that diffrent brands use diffrent pitches, remington accu choke, invector choke ect...
I have two short barrels for my 870, a 14" with a modified choke and a 20" with choke tubes. Having previously owned and tested 18.5" barrels with fixed cylinder chokes I'd prefer to have some choke in the barrel than none at all.
On an HD gun I'd prefer a fixed IC or Modified. Choke tubes are one more variable in a gun that needs as few variations as possible IMO. I keep an IC in my 20" barrel and never change it but if I found one with rifle sights and a fixed IC choke I'd probably buy it and replace the barrel with choke tubes. For games and fun I have other guns but I want my HD gun to be as simple as possible.
On an HD gun I'd prefer a fixed IC or Modified. Choke tubes are one more variable in a gun that needs as few variations as possible IMO. I keep an IC in my 20" barrel and never change it but if I found one with rifle sights and a fixed IC choke I'd probably buy it and replace the barrel with choke tubes. For games and fun I have other guns but I want my HD gun to be as simple as possible.
MAX100
Member
I don't find choke tubes complicated. I want all of my shotgun barrels tapped for choke tubes.
GC
GC
Sergeant Sabre
Member
I can see the point of view of the "simplicity" camp. Especially for non-issued police shotguns. Being an officer myself, I can just see somebody taking the choke tube out (*** is this thing for ) and forgetting about it. Next guy that picks up the shotgun and doesn't check it has no choke. Barrel threads might be ruined, and it could be a problem if guy #2 is practiced-up with and knows the spread / range of a modified choke, but is really carrying a cylinder bore.
On my personal defense shotgun, a screw-in is fine. How many times have you heard of a screw-in choke failing (operator stupidity not included)??
) and forgetting about it. Next guy that picks up the shotgun and doesn't check it has no choke. Barrel threads might be ruined, and it could be a problem if guy #2 is practiced-up with and knows the spread / range of a modified choke, but is really carrying a cylinder bore.On my personal defense shotgun, a screw-in is fine. How many times have you heard of a screw-in choke failing (operator stupidity not included)??
MCgunner
Member
For a while, about 15 or 20 years ago, 20" barrels were all the rage on turkey guns. They had interchangable choke tubes. Friend of mine's brother had a BPS with 20" choke tube barrel he liked to hunt ducks with.
I have a 20" Remington Spartan 20 gauge side by side that came with five choke tubes. What I wanted it for is bird hunting trips on my motorcycle. I don't do QUITE as well with it as my 12s, but pretty danged close. You just have to concentrate on the swing and follow through with such a light, rear weight biased gun. It does make those quick snap shots easier, though, very quick to the shoulder. When I take that gun down, I can fit it in saddle bags or a back pack. Pretty darned handy shotgun for motorcycle travel and I don't really appreciate $3.25 gasoline in my 15 mpg van.
I have a 20" Remington Spartan 20 gauge side by side that came with five choke tubes. What I wanted it for is bird hunting trips on my motorcycle. I don't do QUITE as well with it as my 12s, but pretty danged close. You just have to concentrate on the swing and follow through with such a light, rear weight biased gun. It does make those quick snap shots easier, though, very quick to the shoulder. When I take that gun down, I can fit it in saddle bags or a back pack. Pretty darned handy shotgun for motorcycle travel and I don't really appreciate $3.25 gasoline in my 15 mpg van.
JNewell
Member
No shortage of Remington "youth" shotguns s of all flavors with 21" vent rib Remchoke barrels! As someone noted, the shorter stock makes up for the 21" tube in LOA.
Here's a real good one for you: 870, 18.5" vent rib, 6#, 37" LOA
Here's a real good one for you: 870, 18.5" vent rib, 6#, 37" LOA
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