Why People Want to Ban Ordinary Firearms

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denton

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Copyright 2013 Denton Bramwell

Bad science and bad math lead to bad policies. At least one of the raging errors in public discourse is presently encouraging policies that will cost lives.

A thought experiment: Last year West Virtuckia had 100 homicides. Half of these, 50, were committed with handguns. So what would happen if all private handguns were removed from West Virtuckia? The bad math circulating says the homicide rate would be reduced by about half. But that would be wrong. The evidence is, all other factors constant, the best they could hope for is that the homicide rate won't go up much. Those bent on homicide or suicide would simply find other methods, and they would lose the crime suppression effects of private firearm ownership.

Consider Japan. There is practically no private firearm ownership there. So if getting rid of guns would reduce suicides, you'd think that they would have practically none. But in reality, their suicide rate is about twice that of the US. They are obviously not deterred by a lack of firearms.

Or consider Malaysia. Nice place, nice people, bad place to go target shooting. Their laws provide an automatic death penalty for anyone found with a firearm and a single round of ammunition. You'd think that their homicide rate would be nil. But it is not. The Malaysians just choose different tools and have a homicide rate higher than most of Europe.

The problem isn't the guns. It is us. It's our social problem to solve, and guns are not the root of the evil.

But it is so much easier to blame an inanimate firearm than the anger, lack of respect, and disregard for responsibility in some parts of our society. If we can blame the firearm, we don't have to face our real problem. We are in denial. We are irresponsibly evading reality.

Not long ago, in Oklahoma, a 12 year old girl was at home alone. She became aware that a man was trying to get into the house. She called her mother for instructions. Her mother told her to retrieve the family's 40 caliber handgun, hide in a closet, and, if discovered, shoot the intruder. She was discovered and did exactly as she was instructed, probably sparing herself being raped and murdered.

Make no mistake about it: Limiting firearm ownership limits the ability of law abiding people to defend themselves. That will cost lives. And the number of successful defensive gun uses in the US is well beyond 10 times our homicide rate. On balance, guns in law abiding hands save lives and reduce the crime rate.

I'm not sure of the efficacy of ceremonially attaching sins to a goat and driving her out into the wilderness. I am sure that we can't help the murder rate in Oakland, Chicago or DC by theatrically projecting social ills on a 30 round rifle magazine and driving it out.

Bad math and the inability to acknowledge our real problem lead to bad policies. In this case, bad policies will get people killed.
 
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Excellent.

One small point I'd suggest, although you did address the issue further down in your post, is the murder rate in 'Virtuckia' staying the same even though guns were banned:

In Virtuckia, I would expect the murder rate to go up if guns were banned, not stay the same.
That thought experiment leaves out the murders that would have been prevented by the lawful use of guns for self defense.
 
Denton
Good work! Thanks!
Just a quick question- Virtuckia?All my maps show 50 States in the USA so when Barrack Hussein Obama said something about visting all 57 States, I looked for New Improved maps that showed the names and locations of the 7 States my maps omitted.
Listening to an AM radio broadcast I heard of a wonderful new car dealer in Kentuckiana. Okay Kentuckiana and Virtuckia bring my total to 52. Where the heck are the other 5 missing States?
As a lifelong resident of New York State I am long suspected that inside NY state there might just be a littleknown, carefully hidden area I`ll call Hemodelphia ( blood love,of ) I like to think of as the Vampire State,where all the bloodsucking moonbat NY politicians congegrate.
So that makes 53 down, 4 to go.
 
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"Why people want to ban ordinary firearms..."

Denton--May I respectfully submit that you're going the wrong direction here. It's not logic. It's not faulty math. It's not attaching sins to a goat.

Pure and simple, it's the antis' belief system. Guns are scary. Guns are bad. If all the guns went away, "things in general" would be better. So let's take as many steps as we can to make guns scarcer, so I feel better.

No logic you may use, will ever change that. No facts will alter the case. Beliefs are not subject to logic nor facts.
 
I think the reason people want to ban ordinary firearms is simple: puritanism.

Puritanism takes many forms. The one we think of when we hear the word, of course, is the explicitly religious sort, and brings to mind images of the dour, stern-faced, intolerant Christians of Cromwell's England and the Massachusetts Bay Colony. But that's not the only kind of puritanism. It's basically a simple desire on the part of some people to control or suppress practices of which they disapprove. Here's an interesting article on one kind of puritanism, the church of public health: http://theviewfromcullingworth.blogspot.com/2011/07/welcome-to-church-of-public-health.html

One quote from the article is illuminating:
These proposals are supported by some of the dodgiest arguments (but remember this is a Church so acceptance of the argument is a matter of faith in the expert not in the revelation of truth). Over recent years the Church of Public Health has captured our National Health Service to the point where clinical investment choices are being directed not by proper processes of diagnosis and appraisal but by the Church’s obsessions – smoking, drinking and diet.

And the guardians of truth – our media – do not question or challenge the statements of the Church of Public Health and its priests. They appear regularly on the radio and television, in the pages of the newspapers and in a host of specialist magazines and what they say, their supposed evidence, is never challenged. If these priests say alcohol consumption is rising (when it’s not) no interviewer ever questions that statement.
I point this out because we, as gun owners, are faced with a similar sort of puritanism. Like the public health sort to which this author refers, acceptance of the argument is a matter of faith in the expert not in the revelation of truth, and when the priests of this church make pronouncements, they often go unquestioned by those who also disapprove of the things the priests do. So, the media, and politicians, who are puritan priests of the church of banning guns, can spread all sort of disinformation about guns, and get away with it. They're not interested in facts. They are spreading dogma.

This is what we are up against. There always seem to be people who are simply not happy unless they are running other people's lives for them. They sincerely believe they know what's better for you than you do. They are puritans. And remember, puritans never die, they just change their causes. These same people, had they been around in Cromwell's England, would have been joining the crusade to suppress revelry at Christmas, and make sure that instead of drinking ale, romping under mistletoe, and celebrating, people were instead strictly observing a fast, wearing out their knees thanking Christ for salvation, and humbly excoriating themselves for their sinful natures.
 
They'll about do a cavity search if your child points his/her finger and goes "pow!" or has a piece of paper that looks like an "L". The list is actually quite long with the brainwashing/indoctrination.
 
Yes, and an 'unhealthy interest in firearms' (there being no such thing as a 'healthy interest in firearms', naturally) is what they disapprove of.

Maybe it's just that the guns that they want to ban look cooler than others (and the obsession with cosmetic features lends credence to that) and they don't like people thinking that firearms are cool because they don't share that opinion.
 
Well, the bad math is worse than you describe, if policy makers ignore the 10,000 violent crimes prevented annually with handguns in West Virtuckia. But the bad math doesn't drive the policy. It is a tool of the policy makers to convince the low information voter that their bad policy is good.
 
Pure and simple, it's the antis' belief system.

I'm perfectly happy to have people disagree with me, and you make some good points.

This approach has been rolling around in the back of my mind for a few months. It's pretty carefully considered. Basically, it is taking the offense instead of playing defense.

Most of the time, the dialog goes like this:

You gun owners are selfish, scary and irresponsible. You cause the problem.

No we're not. Look at the statistics.

That is not a winning strategy for us.

I'm trying to shift the dialog to something more like this:

You gun owners are selfish, scary and irresponsible. You cause the problem.

What's really frightening is that you are ignoring the consequences of your failed policies, and using firearms as a scapegoat and distraction. Try solving the real problem.


I think you are correct in saying that it goes to the antis' fundamental belief system. The interesting question is, why have they adopted those beliefs?

Original post has been modified slightly, based on comments here. Thanks.
 
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I recently saw an article "proving" that firearms kill almost as many people as automobiles. But to do that, they had to include suicides with firearms, which make up about 2/3s of firearms deaths.

Now the overwelming evidence is that suicide is caused by clinical depression. If a man is so depressed he's willing to put a gun in his mouth and pull the trigger, do they really expect us to believe he would be magically cured of his depression if he couldn't get a gun, and would go skipping and whistling through the rest of his life?
 
Denton Post

Denton:

Over the past five decades our ruling oligarchy has come to realize they cannot successfully control our lives until/unless they remove our means of resistance. Technology has given them the advantage of being able to monitor , individually, every aspect of our lives. But it has also granted us the ability to freely communicate and form communities and groups to exchange information and ideas. And one only needs to look at how rapidly recent government actions have resulted in a nationwide groundswell of protest. Even a weekday meeting of a minor committee in Trenton, NJ brought out a large (and vociferous) crowd of protestors to further firearms restrictions that's available worldwide. Even a "balding, slightly overweight, middle-age Cherry Hill Jew", (thats how he described himself) felt compelled attend and add his voice to the protest !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GI8Dqmegnk

Its not - nor has it ever been- about "gun control". Its was - and is - about "people control" ! >MW
 
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