This is a major factor and the difference to automotive and aeromotive world. Guns are very simple mechanical devices. They're relatively easy to store, are rarely spoiled by even long periods of time as long as they're protected from corrosion and compared to even the most common cars and planes there are much more of them left. Considering the effort of sporterizing one, it's not as common practise as it used to be and I wouldn't be worried about not finding one in the future. They're just no longer sold for peanuts or stuffed en masse in barrels so it's just a matter of market value and what you're willing to spend to get one.....there are not many left...
Like I've kicked myself many times I didn't get a pair of Colt Diamondbacks I really wanted a couple of decades ago, just because they were dirt cheap at the time so I thought I'll just get them later.
FFL isn't required to repair guns. Only when shipping for transfer of ownership. Sending to factory for warranty work or other repair shop requires no FFL.Do they have an FFL?
I know plenty of plating places but few which do guns.
Josh
It requires an FFL on the other end.FFL isn't required to repair guns. Only when shipping for transfer of ownership. Sending to factory for warranty work or other repair shop requires no FFL.
Sorry, no.FFL isn't required to repair guns. Only when shipping for transfer of ownership. Sending to factory for warranty work or other repair shop requires no FFL.
Did you read my responses?But you're okay with the "butcher and rape" characterization???
That hasn't been my experience. I've never needed to provide FFL to UPS when shipping out guns to be worked on or refinished. I've been told by custom gunmakers FFL isn't required on their end because ownership isn't being transferred. Apparently UPS knows this too. Those gunsmiths are "in the business" and don't provide it for shipping. Same reason they can ship it directly back to my door, it never transferred ownership therefore I don't need to be FFL holder.Sorry, no.
If you are "in the business" of repairing guns, you need an FFL.....
That hasn't been my experience. I've never needed to provide FFL to UPS when shipping out guns to be worked on or refinished. I've been told by custom gunmakers FFL isn't required on their end because ownership isn't being transferred. Apparently UPS knows this too. Those gunsmiths are "in the business" and don't provide it for shipping. Same reason they can ship it directly back to my door, it never transferred ownership therefore I don't need to be FFL holder.
Don't let the BATF know about it, as it is illegal.That hasn't been my experience. I've never needed to provide FFL to UPS when shipping out guns to be worked on or refinished. I've been told by custom gunmakers FFL isn't required on their end because ownership isn't being transferred. Apparently UPS knows this too. Those gunsmiths are "in the business" and don't provide it for shipping. Same reason they can ship it directly back to my door, it never transferred ownership therefore I don't need to be FFL holder.
Someone who plated one firearm frame or a rifle bolt for a customer but generally plated automotive trim probably would not be held to be in the business but if they did several per year? It depends on the ATF's discretion and adjudication.
I engrave several firearms for customers every year, but not enough to say it's my primary business (trophy shop) The understanding I get from the ATF I can do that as long as they're not held overnight. Most I do while the customer waits, but if it's a more complicated job, I have them make an appointment and leave it with me for a couple of hours.Did the customer wait for this to happen in a single day? If the firearm was dropped off or held overnight it must be entered into the A&D book by a FFL. I think someone doing a few repairs while the customer waits maybe be able to avoid being a FFL, however if they will be doing work without the customer present they need the license, or if the work goes on from one business day to another.
I engrave several firearms for customers every year, but not enough to say it's my primary business (trophy shop) The understanding I get from the ATF I can do that as long as they're not held overnight. Most I do while the customer waits, but if it's a more complicated job, I have them make an appointment and leave it with me for a couple of hours.
I think there is a conflation of two things. One, people who repair firearms as a way of living do need an FFL either manufacturers or gunsmith. This is the actual CFR 27 CFR 478.11 requirement which is quoting from its authorizing statute 18 US Code 921 (21). The other is that the law and the ATF try to distinguish between a hobbyist and a business.
"Engaged in the business -
(a) Manufacturer of firearms. A person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms manufactured;
(b) omitted
(c) omitted
(d)Gunsmith. A person who devotes time, attention, and labor to engaging in such activity as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit, but such a term shall not include a person who makes occasional repairs of firearms or who occasionally fits special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms;"
Where the confusion goes is that just like the ATF has refused to further define how many private sales make someone an unlicensed dealer, the CFR promulgated by the ATF is fuzzy about the distinction between manufacturers and gunsmiths (which is why proposals were floated under ITAR to make gunsmiths into manufacturers if they did almost anything other than cleaning, or replacement of stock parts). And it is not clear about the distinction when the line is crossed between occasional repairs and those that need to hold a gunsmithing license. Someone who plated one firearm frame or a rifle bolt for a customer but generally plated automotive trim probably would not be held to be in the business but if they did several per year? It depends on the ATF's discretion and adjudication.
The question above was what was meant by "in the business of".