SwampWolf
Member
That gave me a chuckle, Boondock. It did seem a little on the extreme side to me too when I read it.
Why wont my friends Highpoint 40 eject the first two rounds.
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That gave me a chuckle, Boondock. It did seem a little on the extreme side to me too when I read it.
christcorp
Member
A lot of people have a lot of opinions on what constitutes a good gun and one reliable enough to be used for self/home defense. And I think it is great to hear all the different opinions. But there are a lot of new gun owners on the forums. And many of these gun owners don't have the luxury that many of us have of being able to buy as many guns as we want. Thus, being able to buy different guns to satisfy different needs. And not everyone has the means of buying a BMW.
So, if a person wants to give an opinion of which gun to get; and more importantly which guns NOT to buy; then I think it's important that they provide legitimate reasons why a certain gun isn't a good choice. And I think that is one of the main conflicts in the bashing wars. Especially with Hi-Point. There's a lot of people that like to say that "X" brand gun is a bad choice for defensive purposes. Yet, they aren't able to give any legitimate reasons why. Instead, they give anecdotal reasons that revolve usually around price or that police don't use it. Well, race car drivers, police, military, etc... don't use Ford Focus either, but that doesn't mean it can't be the perfect car for some people. But the most frustrating part is that many people simply ask: WHY NOT? Why isn't "X" gun good enough? But those who are saying no, don't have an answer in many cases. Simply; responses like: "What's your family's life worth".
And I think that is now my definition of a gun "Basher". A Basher is someone who puts down a particular firearm without any real reasons or 1st hand experience.
So, if a person wants to give an opinion of which gun to get; and more importantly which guns NOT to buy; then I think it's important that they provide legitimate reasons why a certain gun isn't a good choice. And I think that is one of the main conflicts in the bashing wars. Especially with Hi-Point. There's a lot of people that like to say that "X" brand gun is a bad choice for defensive purposes. Yet, they aren't able to give any legitimate reasons why. Instead, they give anecdotal reasons that revolve usually around price or that police don't use it. Well, race car drivers, police, military, etc... don't use Ford Focus either, but that doesn't mean it can't be the perfect car for some people. But the most frustrating part is that many people simply ask: WHY NOT? Why isn't "X" gun good enough? But those who are saying no, don't have an answer in many cases. Simply; responses like: "What's your family's life worth".
And I think that is now my definition of a gun "Basher". A Basher is someone who puts down a particular firearm without any real reasons or 1st hand experience.
mcdonl
Member
I tell you what. The owner of Hi Point loves these threads. Sure, some a$$wipes insist on calling HP's (And other guns....) complete POS guns... whatever... everyone is entitled to their opinion, it is just that some cannot articulate it very well and have to just resort to low road comments.
But, the bottom line is Tom and Shirley cannot make enough of their product to keep up with the market.... According to recent polls on here about half of the members would own one.
I own one, and I am educated in many things in life including some limited knowledge of firearms. I know many people above my pay grade, and educational background who own them. The support is terrific and there is a lot of "buzz" about this "ugly" "pos" gun that is everyones favorite to bash.
So, I hope that Tom and/or Shirley see this thread and realize that even though not everyone likes their hi points, that they are on the right track. I have had some good conversations with Tom, and he is a good, loyal, hardworking man who stands behind his product and his employees. Not to mention his support of other businesses in his area.
You cannot make someone who feels that a 1911 is the only gun worth owning become a hi point fan, and why would you? The 1911 is an awesome platform. Shoot, I will own one someday when I want to add another caliber.
And, you also cannot compare the materials that go into a quality 1911 with the C9 or JCP45 but what you need to realize is that if you are just looking at any of the above as "guns" that propel lead down range, you odd's of hitting the target with each pull of the trigger is pretty much the same with any gun on the market. Lemons aside.
So, put down your fists and shake hands. We can all agree to disagree without needing to change the opinions or minds of others.
But, the bottom line is Tom and Shirley cannot make enough of their product to keep up with the market.... According to recent polls on here about half of the members would own one.
I own one, and I am educated in many things in life including some limited knowledge of firearms. I know many people above my pay grade, and educational background who own them. The support is terrific and there is a lot of "buzz" about this "ugly" "pos" gun that is everyones favorite to bash.
So, I hope that Tom and/or Shirley see this thread and realize that even though not everyone likes their hi points, that they are on the right track. I have had some good conversations with Tom, and he is a good, loyal, hardworking man who stands behind his product and his employees. Not to mention his support of other businesses in his area.
You cannot make someone who feels that a 1911 is the only gun worth owning become a hi point fan, and why would you? The 1911 is an awesome platform. Shoot, I will own one someday when I want to add another caliber.
And, you also cannot compare the materials that go into a quality 1911 with the C9 or JCP45 but what you need to realize is that if you are just looking at any of the above as "guns" that propel lead down range, you odd's of hitting the target with each pull of the trigger is pretty much the same with any gun on the market. Lemons aside.
So, put down your fists and shake hands. We can all agree to disagree without needing to change the opinions or minds of others.
wgaynor
Member
I have also compared the .380 version and the 9mm at the gunshop and could find no advantage of purchasing the .380 over the 9mm. I figured, with other brands, the size of the .380 would lend itself to concealability. Then again, there does seem to be alot of people buying them, so I guess it fills a niche.
wgaynor
Member
well put mcdonl.
gglass
Member
Remember... Friends don't let friends buy Hi-Points.
verdun59
Member
What a great read....such emotion...such fury...please keep it going and maybe some talk about harleys vs all the other inferior motorcycles, the good ole .45 vs 9mm, foreign guns vs those made in the USA. It's Saturday let it all out.
christcorp
Member
hmmm; provocative, introspective, philosophical, and passionate. Such insight could compete with Aristotle and Plato. The only problem is: There's absolutely no substance behind it at all.
mcdonl was so correct in his last post. You definitely can't change some people's minds. But to be honest, I never want to change people's minds. That's totally up to them to change or not change their own mind. In life, we all have a perspective. We see life differently. We appreciate it differently. As such, how we interact with it will be different. This is good. It makes life interesting and the journey it truly is. However, when a part of life is debated because of differing perspectives, I am not trying to change another person's mind. I'm trying to figure out their perspective.
Basically, how did the topic under discussion affect that person. Then, we can learn from each other's perspective and experiences. This learning can lead to better decisions on our part. And that is what life's journey is all about. Here comes the problem; you knew there was going to be one, in my opinion. There are people that give their opinion, their perspective, and their experience on a topic, but they are misleading the readers. Are they intentionally lying? No, they don't mean any harm. They passionately believe in what they are saying. Unfortunately, they don't know what they are talking about. Like gglass and his philosophy. It's a rhetorical statement that only has 1 response by the reader....."WHY"? He implies that Hi-Points are junk. Yet, like the VAST MAJORITY of people who put down Hi-Point, or Honda, or Samsung, or any product in the world; gglass has no true experiences. He has no true perspective. He has no valid opinion. And his opinion only promotes misinformation. Like the old timers who have perpetuated the concept that dry firing any gun is bad, wrong, evil. That you MUST change the oil in your car every 3,000 miles; even if the owner's manual says 7,500. Ignorance can be bliss, but it can also be really stupid.
Some will say that they don't have to take cocaine to know that it's bad for you. Well unfortunately, cocaine isn't bad for you if you use it properly. It's been used for medicinal purposes by doctors for years. Same with morphine and many drugs. There is some truth in anecdotal evidence and proof. The problem is, those who are trying to take this approach are biased, rationalizing, and do not want to know the truth. In the case of the hi-point, they are trying to rationalize how much money they spent on their weapon. The same anecdotal evidence that they will use as their argument, they refuse to see when it doesn't support their position. And that anecdotal evidence is: The overwhelming majority of hi-point owners; probably in line with the percentage of glock, S&W, springfield, etc... owners; are very happy with their hi-points and it's reliability and dependability.
So, when people want to give their opinion on a topic, any topic, their opinion can only be respected if it has some facts to back it up. Of course, many will simply hide behind their "right" to speak, and they feel they shouldn't have to be responsible for what they say. This isn't about trying to change another person's mind or opinion. Only they can change their mind or opinion. It's about providing information to substantiate their opinion. And when a person can't do that, then their opinion doesn't deserve the respect they are seeking.
wgaynor
Member
Well Gglass, I guess I'm lucky my friends aren't like you.
So, do you have a personal beef with Hi Point's. Did they make you mad? Did they steal from you? Have you ever owned one? Did you have problems with it and if so, did you go through the necessary steps to fix the problem by utilizing the warranty, or did you just decide to hate all of them?
Do you hate Whoppers to because some of them don't look exactly round and are more crunchy than malty?
Do you hate milk because sometimes, even though the expiration date is good, it expires?
Do you hate McDonald's because when you ask for no ketchup, they do it anyway?
Do you hate the post office because they lose your mail?
Do you hate your car because sometimes, the tires go flat but they still have tread?
I'm sure your just being sarcastic, but you come off very low class. There is a name for such people...Instigator. The attitudes on this post had just settled down, but you had to go and throw gas back on the flames. It's people like you that just make me wonder how you can control anything without screwing it up, because you obviously can't control yourself enough to not post smart alec and tasteless remarks.
Tell you what, learn how to control yourself.
So, do you have a personal beef with Hi Point's. Did they make you mad? Did they steal from you? Have you ever owned one? Did you have problems with it and if so, did you go through the necessary steps to fix the problem by utilizing the warranty, or did you just decide to hate all of them?
Do you hate Whoppers to because some of them don't look exactly round and are more crunchy than malty?
Do you hate milk because sometimes, even though the expiration date is good, it expires?
Do you hate McDonald's because when you ask for no ketchup, they do it anyway?
Do you hate the post office because they lose your mail?
Do you hate your car because sometimes, the tires go flat but they still have tread?
I'm sure your just being sarcastic, but you come off very low class. There is a name for such people...Instigator. The attitudes on this post had just settled down, but you had to go and throw gas back on the flames. It's people like you that just make me wonder how you can control anything without screwing it up, because you obviously can't control yourself enough to not post smart alec and tasteless remarks.
Tell you what, learn how to control yourself.
SwampWolf
Member
Wow! You tag on that admonition after you threw your little hissy fit? Get a grip-we're discussing which guns we like or dislike and why; not which religion will take you to heaven or which one might send you to hell.
verdun59
Member
I'm loving it ... better than Ann Landers.
christcorp
Member
Unfortunately, what you say and what others post are 2 different things. You said: "Which guns we like or dislike, AND WHY". Unfortunately, there are quite a few people who don't have an answer for the "WHY" part. And they expect to be "Respected" for their opinion. Sorry, but comments like "Friends don't let friends buy Hi-Point"; or "What is your and your family's life worth", are totally STUPID. There is no "WHY" involved there. If a person wants to be respected for their opinion, then they need to back up their opinion. I respect a lot of opinions, even if I don't agree with them. But I DON'T respect uneducated comments that have no "Why" to back it up. You don't like hi-point, that's fine. The question by many have been.... "WHY". "Well..... Because". "Ummmmm, my life is worth more than that". Sorry, those aren't "WHY's". Those are, "I have absolutely NO IDEA what I'm talking about, but I'm entitled to my opinion" answers. And sorry, but those are not entitled to respect.Wow! You tag on that admonition after you threw your little hissy fit? Get a grip-we're discussing which guns we like or dislike and why; not which religion will take you to heaven or which one might send you to hell.
I have nothing against Hipoints personally. I don't particularly want to buy a large (for the caliber), heavy, ugly gun. I've seen two Hipoints in "action" at the range. Both were jamamatics, never making it through a magazine and leaving the new owners frustrated. I also have a close friend's father that had the same experience. Three out of three sounds like bad odds from my personal experience. I would love to see a Hipoint make it through a magazine, just to give me hope that they sell a working firearm. I've put them in the Raven catagory till I see otherwise.
I've got nothing against value priced firearms. I've had great experiences with Stevens, Savage, Keltec, Chipmunk, and Heritage....there are probably some others I'm forgetting.
I've got nothing against value priced firearms. I've had great experiences with Stevens, Savage, Keltec, Chipmunk, and Heritage....there are probably some others I'm forgetting.
christcorp
Member
Mongo, you have "Why's" and that's admirable. And that's something we could talk about. We could talk about if the guns you saw at the range were "New" guns. And if they were, did the owners know that there is a break-in for the gun and magazine. Very well documented. If they weren't new, was there some other variable. I have a Walther that can't shoot Corbon. I have an FEG that will fail-to-feed 50% of most domestic ammunition. So there are a lot of variables. But at least you have a "Reason why". And that is respectful. And until you experience otherwise, you have a legitimate reason to be skeptical. Unfortunately, there are a lot of others, who have no "Why's", that at the very least will try and jump on anecdotal reasons such as yours. They will have absolutely no 1st hand experience. They will simply be spouting crap. And the fact that probably 95%+ of all hi-point owners, who actually own and shoot a hi-point, are quite happy with their pistol, will mean absolutely nothing to these people. But you have a legitimate reason. That is respectful. For the others, they haven't earned any respect. And now that they've been called on it, it's a catch-22. If they now come back and say: "Well I saw all these people with problems".... I'm going to say they are FOS and call B.S. on them. But again, you have a legitimate and respectful opinion.
Christcorp - they were all shooting fmj ammo. I've seen a lot of pistols that needed a break-in, these were something different; that or very different to what I've become accustomed. I've had picky guns too...a Walther PPK/S that needed to be very clean and well oiled. A PTR that needed commercial .308. A mini-14 that wouldn't fire steel cased ammo reliably.
While I agree that there may be a lot of Hipoints out there that work; I will respectfully say that 95% is likely way off. Until we have access to Hipoint's warranty return numbers we are all guessing.
I am interested in giving information to fellow shooters to help make their experiences better. I would not recommend that anyone buy a Hipoint based on my experiences. There are several others that I have my same personal opinion about based on my experiences: Taurus, Sig Mosquito, and Raven to name a few. These are just my opinions. I've heard horror stories about Keltec P3ATs; but between me and close friends there are 7 of us that are very happy. I've heard horror stories about Walther P22s, but I know 3 others besides me that love them.
While I agree that there may be a lot of Hipoints out there that work; I will respectfully say that 95% is likely way off. Until we have access to Hipoint's warranty return numbers we are all guessing.
I am interested in giving information to fellow shooters to help make their experiences better. I would not recommend that anyone buy a Hipoint based on my experiences. There are several others that I have my same personal opinion about based on my experiences: Taurus, Sig Mosquito, and Raven to name a few. These are just my opinions. I've heard horror stories about Keltec P3ATs; but between me and close friends there are 7 of us that are very happy. I've heard horror stories about Walther P22s, but I know 3 others besides me that love them.
christcorp
Member
Well, according to Hi-Point, they "say" that shy of 2% of all their hi-point weapons ever manufactured have ever come back for warranty work. Of course, that's them saying it and obviously we aren't privy to actually looking at their records. So I believe that even if we double that number, 95% would seem reasonable.
winchester jhp 230 gr 45 acp cycle perfect !!!! oal is 1.20. but the winchester 230 gr fmj loads are not good at all have had every 3rd round stove pipe or fail to eject at all? oal is 1.25 try some diff ammo people , my p345 ruger likes its special ammo too boys! if ya gotem shootem!!!
christcorp
Member
Excellent observation and advice crusty. There are too many people out there that have unrealistic expectations. They think that everything in life should be perfect, or it sucks. If a "Particular" pistol has an issue, then it must suck. Sure; if you want to pay $800-$1000 for a pistol, I would hope that it would shoot every possible bullet known to mankind. Unfortunately, even Sig, S&W, Glock, H&K, and a number of others have had issues with certain ammo. Not the entire line, but some individual guns. That doesn't make them ALL suck. Well, my Hi-Point C-9 9mm will literally shoot everything I've fed it. From new fmj to hp to some old crusty dirty ammo that I've had for about 10 years.
Again, excellent advice. I think when a person has a repeated problem feeding, firing, extracting, or ejecting ammo with their pistol, the first thing they need to do is look at other ammo. Who said your gun was suppose to be able to shoot every brand/size ammo in the world? Tell that to my Walther that will NOT shoot Corbon. It won't even fit in the chamber. Or my Springfield 1911A1 that really despises SWC ammo. Talk about feeding problem. I've only ever had 2 guns that I haven't been able to find ammo that it WON'T shoot. My SigSauer P220 45acp. It couldn't screw up if you wanted it to. (And yes, I do expect a little more from a $1,000 gun). The other is my Saiga .223 AK-47 variant. DUH!!! It's an AK. It will shoot sand, pebbles, and broken glass if you tell it to. Other than those, I've never owned another pistol or semi-auto rifle that was 100% with ALL ammo.
Again, excellent advice. I think when a person has a repeated problem feeding, firing, extracting, or ejecting ammo with their pistol, the first thing they need to do is look at other ammo. Who said your gun was suppose to be able to shoot every brand/size ammo in the world? Tell that to my Walther that will NOT shoot Corbon. It won't even fit in the chamber. Or my Springfield 1911A1 that really despises SWC ammo. Talk about feeding problem. I've only ever had 2 guns that I haven't been able to find ammo that it WON'T shoot. My SigSauer P220 45acp. It couldn't screw up if you wanted it to. (And yes, I do expect a little more from a $1,000 gun). The other is my Saiga .223 AK-47 variant. DUH!!! It's an AK. It will shoot sand, pebbles, and broken glass if you tell it to. Other than those, I've never owned another pistol or semi-auto rifle that was 100% with ALL ammo.
sig
good info on the sig , may need to check them out! well off to the range in the am trying some sweet reloads in the jhp, lead flat nose 255 grain (my cast rounds ,new lee mold) will they cycle? takin bets tonight boys! also loaded 50 of the barrys 230 gr plated blts 4.0 clays , and some barrys hard bal 230 gr lead blts 50 of them all round nose all oal at 1.21 the jhp likes 1.20-1.22 so far. nice reading your posts , keepem comming!!!crusty out!
good info on the sig , may need to check them out! well off to the range in the am trying some sweet reloads in the jhp, lead flat nose 255 grain (my cast rounds ,new lee mold) will they cycle? takin bets tonight boys! also loaded 50 of the barrys 230 gr plated blts 4.0 clays , and some barrys hard bal 230 gr lead blts 50 of them all round nose all oal at 1.21 the jhp likes 1.20-1.22 so far. nice reading your posts , keepem comming!!!crusty out!
yeah!I love my country and the men and women who defend her,I love my right to keep and bear arms , my wife ,and last but not least every dam thing made in america! my guns, my car ,and my favorite thing my hog!!! sorry honey, he he ,we are the last line of defense!!!! never forget it!!!!!
FROGO207
Member
I hate to rain on anybody's parade here but----I own 3 Hipoints 380, 9mm, and 45. All worked 100% from new in the box and are in my estimation worth more than I paid for them. Nite guys I am going to bed safe and protected.
Nite guys I am going to bed safe and protected. mcdonl
Member
Crusty, I am a new re-loader and I have learned that when setting up the seating die you want to setup for the minimum length that will cycle the action in the gun you are loading for, so your findings make sense.
I have had the same luck as you frogo... as a matter of fact I ran the test batch of the 9mm brass with mag primers through my C9 and 995TS with no issues.
Of all the people I ever see bad mouth them it seems like the majority bad mouth them about their aesthetics and looks.
But, if you go in the auto loading handgun section there are people bashing kimber because they have so many problems out of the box, and many other threads like it. Guns are machines and subject to failure. I would rather have my $139 gun have the rare failure and get it fixed/replaced for free, for life then a $1000 gun have the rare failure and need to pay big bucks to fix it.
But, I am all about the value.
I have had the same luck as you frogo... as a matter of fact I ran the test batch of the 9mm brass with mag primers through my C9 and 995TS with no issues.
Of all the people I ever see bad mouth them it seems like the majority bad mouth them about their aesthetics and looks.
But, if you go in the auto loading handgun section there are people bashing kimber because they have so many problems out of the box, and many other threads like it. Guns are machines and subject to failure. I would rather have my $139 gun have the rare failure and get it fixed/replaced for free, for life then a $1000 gun have the rare failure and need to pay big bucks to fix it.
But, I am all about the value.
I also have a 995, a 9mm, a 380, and the 45 acp Hi Points that I bought for shooting cast bullets out of and I have had zero problems with them. I also have upward of 40 other guns,(I'm a collector), and I can not say that Hi Points' are better or worse than any of the the others in my collection. They do, and I would guess, will always go bang when I need them to do so.
One thing I've learned from reading on these forums is that some people will always bash something that someone else has if it not what they consider good enough. It doesn't matter if it's reloading presses, guns, cars, ... you name it. It's almost like they have to justify that they felt comfortable paying $800-$1000 for a gun when someone gets a gun they like for $150-$250. You need to look at it like water off a duck's arse. The more they can get someone bristled up, the better they like it.
I had a ruger 10/22 that was the bigest jamming priece of crappola that I ever owned, but I would not say that they are a bad gun, as many, many thousand of people have them with no problems whatso ever. Sometimes you just get a bad one.
One thing I've learned from reading on these forums is that some people will always bash something that someone else has if it not what they consider good enough. It doesn't matter if it's reloading presses, guns, cars, ... you name it. It's almost like they have to justify that they felt comfortable paying $800-$1000 for a gun when someone gets a gun they like for $150-$250. You need to look at it like water off a duck's arse. The more they can get someone bristled up, the better they like it.
I had a ruger 10/22 that was the bigest jamming priece of crappola that I ever owned, but I would not say that they are a bad gun, as many, many thousand of people have them with no problems whatso ever. Sometimes you just get a bad one.
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