T.Stahl
Member
The president of my club once gave me this explanation:
"They want to know there's someone present to help them in case it goes wrong."
"They want to know there's someone present to help them in case it goes wrong."
Why would a guy shoot himself at the range?
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Kruzr
Member
I'll be happy to sell him one since we don't inventory any guns other than the rentals and we would order it for him. He still can't try one of ours unless he comes in with someone. 10 days after we submit the paperwork (after it arrives), he can take it home. He can shoot it at the range during the waiting period since it is his gun. I would hope that after waiting 3 or 4 days, he would wait another 10 and do his business elsewhere. If it ever happens, I'm sure a new rule would go into effect that wouldn't allow shooting during the "cooling off " period.
thorn726
Member
ok so looks like this guy didnt rent the gun .
my only guess would be maybe he thought killing himself at the range would
-be a lttle safer for bystanders??
- or, that people at the range would be less traumatized by it? i dont know doesnt make a whole lot of sense.
i agree , a bridge in the middle of the night would be best, but the range is better than a neighborhood whee kids might have to see, but then there could be kids at the range ??
really weird place to off yourself
my only guess would be maybe he thought killing himself at the range would
-be a lttle safer for bystanders??
- or, that people at the range would be less traumatized by it? i dont know doesnt make a whole lot of sense.
i agree , a bridge in the middle of the night would be best, but the range is better than a neighborhood whee kids might have to see, but then there could be kids at the range ??
really weird place to off yourself
rdbrowning
Member
I have heard that for every "sucessful" suicide there are many others that back out at the last minute. Going to a range and renting a gun provides a convient "cover" for all of the actions necessary to kill yourself, right up to the point of putting the gun to our head and puling the trigger. There is a reason to have the gun, have it out, and putting live ammo into it. No one at the range is going to question these actions and interrupt you. However if you exercise the option of backing out, you just aim down range and unload, no questions asked, no face lost. If you try doing this some where else someone may notice and intervine. Very embarrasing to get caught with a loaded gun in a situation where you wouldn't normally have a loaded gun. Embarrasement is the last thing someone who is despondent from all of the failures in life needs.
Cool Hand Luke 22:36
member
Hey now...Ruger's are way overbuilt for this kind of one-shot stop.
campergeek
Member
I think the mindset of anyone who commits suicide at a range is probably the same as anyone who commits suicide anywhere else by any other means - in any case they may be sane, rational people who are too inwardly-focused. Except in certain exceptions which probably exist (such as a person distraught over a tragic incident), the act of suicide is an overtly selfish act. Typically, a person who commits suicide is focused on themselves - how others see them; how they don't get the respect they deserve; how nobody understands them, etc. By killing themselves they will become noticed by others; people will finally appreciate them and be sad at their loss. There is no consideration for the figurative mess that will be left for families to clean up at the loss (or, to be quite blunt, the literal mess that will be left for someone). In fact, I don't think any of that matters. The negative feelings and financial or legal issues that suicide leaves behind are inconsequential, or even beneficial, because they call more attention to the one committing the act.
I'm no psychologist or therapist, but the cases of suicide I've seen fall into this mold, including my B-I-L who asphyxiated himself with carbon monoxide. My sister wasn't being the wife that HE wanted; he wasn't getting his way so he did away with himself and left everything behind for everyone else to take care of. I don't think the mental state would have been any different had he chosen to do it in lane 3 at a shooting range instead.
I'm no psychologist or therapist, but the cases of suicide I've seen fall into this mold, including my B-I-L who asphyxiated himself with carbon monoxide. My sister wasn't being the wife that HE wanted; he wasn't getting his way so he did away with himself and left everything behind for everyone else to take care of. I don't think the mental state would have been any different had he chosen to do it in lane 3 at a shooting range instead.
BluesBear
member
Just because you can't understand someone elses feelings doesn't give you the right to degrade them.
While I'll agree than many people wack themselves for the attention. For most of them it's the only way they will ever achieve their 15 minutes of fame.
But for many, many other people, a self imposed dirt nap is simply a way to finish a life than has become too unbearable to endure any longer.
Yes some people may decide to go out in a blast of gorey but the rest just want out. They don't want to be a burden. That's why they take pills, or suck on a tailpipe or take a swan dive off the back of the ferry.
It's the self centered bastards that unsuccesfully attempt suicide several times that are the attention whores. In those cases it is all about them. They don't want help, they just want pity.
But for the others all they want is peace.
For some people being alive ain't living.
Not everyone can be Superman.
While I'll agree than many people wack themselves for the attention. For most of them it's the only way they will ever achieve their 15 minutes of fame.
But for many, many other people, a self imposed dirt nap is simply a way to finish a life than has become too unbearable to endure any longer.
Yes some people may decide to go out in a blast of gorey but the rest just want out. They don't want to be a burden. That's why they take pills, or suck on a tailpipe or take a swan dive off the back of the ferry.
It's the self centered bastards that unsuccesfully attempt suicide several times that are the attention whores. In those cases it is all about them. They don't want help, they just want pity.
But for the others all they want is peace.
For some people being alive ain't living.
Not everyone can be Superman.
coltcarbine
Member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2005
- Messages
- 8
Always cheaper to rent it than buy it. Looks like suicidal people are becoming thrifty. Not good for us.
The guy wanted to buy a handgun from my favorite gun shop and range (no rentals at this place) but he needed a Michigan purchase permit. So, off to the police station and applies for his purchase permit. Days later he buys the handgun of his dreams since he has purchase permit. Instead of going out on the range to do the deed he drives up to the city park, gets out of his car and does it in the parking lot.
His choice of location had something to do with making someone in his life feel bad about his decision to end it all. In this case the police said he was trying to make a point by going to the park.
His choice of location had something to do with making someone in his life feel bad about his decision to end it all. In this case the police said he was trying to make a point by going to the park.
brian roberts
Member
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2004
- Messages
- 153
checking out....
whatever the reasons, good, bad, indifferent, maybe its the ultimate rebellion, maybe "mind control" (that way "a crazed shooter" always seems to show up at the most convenient/inconvenient time when we "need" more gun control)but whatever it is, there's an easier way:5 spoons of salt(mebbe 6 or 7 to be sure)take your nap, no permits, licenses, fees, astonishment,(whatta ya doin' wdat boxa salt, bunky???) mess to clean up(do it in the tub, if you must, please) no questions(does this fit a handgun)no "salt control". the perfect solution for the determined. why don't more use the quiet method???
whatever the reasons, good, bad, indifferent, maybe its the ultimate rebellion, maybe "mind control" (that way "a crazed shooter" always seems to show up at the most convenient/inconvenient time when we "need" more gun control)but whatever it is, there's an easier way:5 spoons of salt(mebbe 6 or 7 to be sure)take your nap, no permits, licenses, fees, astonishment,(whatta ya doin' wdat boxa salt, bunky???) mess to clean up(do it in the tub, if you must, please) no questions(does this fit a handgun)no "salt control". the perfect solution for the determined. why don't more use the quiet method???
ScorpioVI
Member
Had an incident here at my local gun-shop a couple of years back. Not a range, no rentals, just a regular shop. SOB comes in to the store with a 12-gauge shell in his pocket (I assume he bought it at a Walmart or something beforehand), walks over to the unsecured rack of used shotguns in the middle of the floor, chambers the shell and offs himself.
Took them days to clean up the mess.
Took them days to clean up the mess.
feedthehogs
Member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2003
- Messages
- 1,801
I don't think I've seen more narrow minded, uncaring, self absorbed and just plain stupid people than some of the posters here.
Killing yourself is a major epidemic around the world. The quotes of "nut jobs", "selfishness", diseased brain matter is just a sign of imaturity.
I dare anyone of you self righteous individuals to spend some time at a mental heath facility if you have the guts to do it.
My aunt hung herself and my mom was locked in a facility for 2 years when I was 13 because their father molested them when they were young. Their other sisters all died young from alcohol and drug abuse from the same problem.
While none used a gun, plenty still do. There are all kinds of reasons one kills themselves. The very few do it to gain attention.
People have some real problems that they just can't handle on their own.
The continued stigma of being called a "nut job" by insensitive, imature, self righteous children such as the ones here are the reason alot of people won't seek help.
It must be nice to be so perfect.
Killing yourself is a major epidemic around the world. The quotes of "nut jobs", "selfishness", diseased brain matter is just a sign of imaturity.
I dare anyone of you self righteous individuals to spend some time at a mental heath facility if you have the guts to do it.
My aunt hung herself and my mom was locked in a facility for 2 years when I was 13 because their father molested them when they were young. Their other sisters all died young from alcohol and drug abuse from the same problem.
While none used a gun, plenty still do. There are all kinds of reasons one kills themselves. The very few do it to gain attention.
People have some real problems that they just can't handle on their own.
The continued stigma of being called a "nut job" by insensitive, imature, self righteous children such as the ones here are the reason alot of people won't seek help.
It must be nice to be so perfect.
BluesBear
member
feedthehogs
NHBB
Member
same thing happened at an indoor range here... and at the worst timing. a local news crew was doing a positive piece on the place, and some kid comes in and offs himself with a rental... the clerks I spoke to said you never could have known, he just seemed pumped to try out a handgun. that news piece didnt come out as nicely after that apparently.... a shame when a few thoughtless mongrels make it harder for the rest of us.
QuarterBoreGunner
Member
Case in point:
The final thoughts of a person intent on suicide are obviously God’s Own Mystery.
Case in point: when working the ammo counter at my old indoor range/store, I had a guy come in, rent eye and ear protection, get some target and also rent the Colt Anaconda .44. He then came over to where I was working the ammo counter and asked for “the most powerful hunting ammo†we had. I set him up with a box of Hornady 300grn XTP which we used to keep on hand for the pig hunters in the area. He complained about the price and decided to get a box of Fed red box 240grn instead. Then he promptly went into the men’s room and shot himself in the head.
Now the really strange part is that when you sign in to shoot, we used to keep a tab running, so that if you needed more ammo or targets for the range, we’d just add them to the tab and you’d pay at the end.
So what the heck was the guy complaining about the price for? IT’S NOT LIKE HE WAS GOING TO PAY FOR IT!
Just plain weird.
Brett Bellmore
Member
Feedthehogs, I've got a great deal of sympathy for suicides, seeing as, after my divorce, I got drunk in the bath, and took a carving knife to my wrist. Fortunately I didn't get drunk enough, it hurt like hell, and the pain woke me up from my funk long enough to think things through, and decide that I didn't really want to do that to my family, even if my own life was nothing but pain, and I could see no hope for the future.
After that, if I started to get suicidal again, I'd just go punch a brick wall or bite my tongue. Worked like a charm. These days I rely on a food suplement called "SAME", though; Leaves fewer scars, and lasts a lot longer. It's rather amazing, though; I can actually tell when the suplement is wearing off, because this internal monologue starts up, recounting all the ways my life sucks.
Oh, and why didn't I just use a gun? I figured you guys didn't need the headline.
After that, if I started to get suicidal again, I'd just go punch a brick wall or bite my tongue. Worked like a charm. These days I rely on a food suplement called "SAME", though; Leaves fewer scars, and lasts a lot longer. It's rather amazing, though; I can actually tell when the suplement is wearing off, because this internal monologue starts up, recounting all the ways my life sucks.
Oh, and why didn't I just use a gun? I figured you guys didn't need the headline.
M2 Carbine
member
"feedthehogs
I don't think I've seen more narrow minded, uncaring, self absorbed and just plain stupid people than some of the posters here.
Killing yourself is a major epidemic around the world. The quotes of "nut jobs", "selfishness", diseased brain matter is just a sign of imaturity.
I dare anyone of you self righteous individuals to spend some time at a mental heath facility if you have the guts to do it.
My aunt hung herself and my mom was locked in a facility for 2 years when I was 13 because their father molested them when they were young. Their other sisters all died young from alcohol and drug abuse from the same problem.
While none used a gun, plenty still do. There are all kinds of reasons one kills themselves. The very few do it to gain attention.
People have some real problems that they just can't handle on their own.
The continued stigma of being called a "nut job" by insensitive, imature, self righteous children such as the ones here are the reason alot of people won't seek help.
It must be nice to be so perfect."
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Every time one of these suicide related threads runs it's full of ignorant posts by "narrow minded, uncaring, self absorbed and just plain stupid people".
feedthehogs, you are pretty close to what I want to say.
At times I almost, but not quite, wish some of you critics would find yourself close to this problem. Then you might understand how ignorant your self righteous comments are.
BTW, my father shot himself in his home, but I guess that's OK because he didn't interrupt anyone's day of target shooting or hold up rush hour traffic or mess up the sidewalk from jumping off a building.
Of course his using a gun does make us gun owners look bad, so I guess I have to apologize to you gun owners for that.
I don't think I've seen more narrow minded, uncaring, self absorbed and just plain stupid people than some of the posters here.
Killing yourself is a major epidemic around the world. The quotes of "nut jobs", "selfishness", diseased brain matter is just a sign of imaturity.
I dare anyone of you self righteous individuals to spend some time at a mental heath facility if you have the guts to do it.
My aunt hung herself and my mom was locked in a facility for 2 years when I was 13 because their father molested them when they were young. Their other sisters all died young from alcohol and drug abuse from the same problem.
While none used a gun, plenty still do. There are all kinds of reasons one kills themselves. The very few do it to gain attention.
People have some real problems that they just can't handle on their own.
The continued stigma of being called a "nut job" by insensitive, imature, self righteous children such as the ones here are the reason alot of people won't seek help.
It must be nice to be so perfect."
__________________
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Every time one of these suicide related threads runs it's full of ignorant posts by "narrow minded, uncaring, self absorbed and just plain stupid people".
feedthehogs, you are pretty close to what I want to say.
At times I almost, but not quite, wish some of you critics would find yourself close to this problem. Then you might understand how ignorant your self righteous comments are.
BTW, my father shot himself in his home, but I guess that's OK because he didn't interrupt anyone's day of target shooting or hold up rush hour traffic or mess up the sidewalk from jumping off a building.
Of course his using a gun does make us gun owners look bad, so I guess I have to apologize to you gun owners for that.
Brett Bellmore
Member
The thing you have to understand when you look at suicides is that, while, sure, there are circumstances under which a sane person might commit suicide, most people who commit suicide AREN'T in such circumstances. They're taking a knife to their wrists, or blowing their brains out, because they're NOT thinking straight.
Take me; A couple dollars a day of a widely available food suplement makes the difference between me being merely somewhat moody, and having to constantly fight off the desire to end it all. That's biochemistry, people.
There ARE, of course, other factors involved. I wasn't the least bit suicidal while I was still married, for instance. But as I look back on my life, I can see that depression had been creeping up on me over a period of a couple of decades, and all falling in love did was lift me out of it for a couple of years, before letting me drop again. Who knows, even if my wife hadn't deserted me, it might have gotten bad enough to give me trouble in another decade or two.
I think at one time we had more social support mechanisms, more involvement with family, to keep people like me going despite bad biochemistry. That, and of course a lot more stigma being attached to killing yourself, so that a fair number of people who were really desperately unhappy, for reasons largely unrelated to their lives being terrible, stuck it out. But they were walking through lives of living hell, as I can testify.
Today, we've taken the props out from under people, and the folks who are ok get by, and the people who aren't ok end it all. But all along they weren't ok.
Take me; A couple dollars a day of a widely available food suplement makes the difference between me being merely somewhat moody, and having to constantly fight off the desire to end it all. That's biochemistry, people.
There ARE, of course, other factors involved. I wasn't the least bit suicidal while I was still married, for instance. But as I look back on my life, I can see that depression had been creeping up on me over a period of a couple of decades, and all falling in love did was lift me out of it for a couple of years, before letting me drop again. Who knows, even if my wife hadn't deserted me, it might have gotten bad enough to give me trouble in another decade or two.
I think at one time we had more social support mechanisms, more involvement with family, to keep people like me going despite bad biochemistry. That, and of course a lot more stigma being attached to killing yourself, so that a fair number of people who were really desperately unhappy, for reasons largely unrelated to their lives being terrible, stuck it out. But they were walking through lives of living hell, as I can testify.
Today, we've taken the props out from under people, and the folks who are ok get by, and the people who aren't ok end it all. But all along they weren't ok.
I ran afoul of this rule when I wanted to "try before buy". I don't really mind that they have the rule, just warn me about it before I go out in the rain and fight rush hour traffic for 40 minutest to get there. :banghead:
Before I drove over I had talked to them on the phone at some length, making sure they had the specific gun I wanted to try. They were too stupid/disorganized/thoughtless to tell me on the phone... "by the way you either have to have a carry permit, or come with a friend or we can't rent to you". Even more frustrating was that I'd rented a gun, on my own, at the same place just 2 months earlier. Apparently application of this rule was at the range officers discression. I had also taken my CCW training at this place (but hadn't gotten the permit yet). Still, no dice.
I will never buy anything from this place again (Bills Guns, Robbinsdale MN). Just plain rude and incompetent behavior.
Before I drove over I had talked to them on the phone at some length, making sure they had the specific gun I wanted to try. They were too stupid/disorganized/thoughtless to tell me on the phone... "by the way you either have to have a carry permit, or come with a friend or we can't rent to you". Even more frustrating was that I'd rented a gun, on my own, at the same place just 2 months earlier. Apparently application of this rule was at the range officers discression. I had also taken my CCW training at this place (but hadn't gotten the permit yet). Still, no dice.
I will never buy anything from this place again (Bills Guns, Robbinsdale MN). Just plain rude and incompetent behavior.
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
i dont think it makes a whit of difference where a person chooses to commit suicide.
my dad had two sons from his first marriage. i didnt/dont know them, but about 14 years or so ago, one of my half brothers was living in the village of tatitlek, not long after spending some time in jail for i dont recall what. i did get a chance to visit with him while he was in jail though, and he seemed very happy, was a great guy. he was 5 or 6 years older than me.
anyways, he blew his head off with a shotgun. i heard later that he walked to his kid brothers (from his mothers 2nd or 3rd marriage) room, looked at him for a moment, walked into the next room and pulled the trigger.
i wish i could have gotten the chance to know the guy better. but i dont keep ties with my fathers side of the family.
my views on suicide are radically different than everyone elses. i dont see why someone should be expected to remain in this life if they are miserable. its selfish for people to think that others OWE it to them to stay alive.
then again, my views on death and the soul are also quite different as well.
my dad had two sons from his first marriage. i didnt/dont know them, but about 14 years or so ago, one of my half brothers was living in the village of tatitlek, not long after spending some time in jail for i dont recall what. i did get a chance to visit with him while he was in jail though, and he seemed very happy, was a great guy. he was 5 or 6 years older than me.
anyways, he blew his head off with a shotgun. i heard later that he walked to his kid brothers (from his mothers 2nd or 3rd marriage) room, looked at him for a moment, walked into the next room and pulled the trigger.
i wish i could have gotten the chance to know the guy better. but i dont keep ties with my fathers side of the family.
my views on suicide are radically different than everyone elses. i dont see why someone should be expected to remain in this life if they are miserable. its selfish for people to think that others OWE it to them to stay alive.
then again, my views on death and the soul are also quite different as well.
Brett Bellmore
Member
Look, Spaceman, as a matter of political philosophy I tend to agree with you, but political philosphy is meant for mentally competent people. And as someone who's been there, done that, and got a scar across their wrist, I'm telling you that most people who commit suicide are NOT really mentally competent. They're not killing themselves because their objective circumstances aren't worth enduring, they're killing themselves because their heads are messed up.
And it's damned stupid to kill yourself because you're miserable, when the only reason you're miserable is that your brain isn't producing enough of some chemical, and a couple pills a day would allow you to find joy in living.
The problem, of course, is that if your head is messed up that way, you won't go LOOKING for treatment, because you've got biochemical blinders on, preventing you from seeing any way but down. Heck, *I* only started taking SAME for my arthritis, not to treat depression, and a month later suddenly noticed that I hadn't thought about killing myself in weeks. If not for that accident I'd probably STILL be thinking of carving knives as bath toys.
And it's damned stupid to kill yourself because you're miserable, when the only reason you're miserable is that your brain isn't producing enough of some chemical, and a couple pills a day would allow you to find joy in living.
The problem, of course, is that if your head is messed up that way, you won't go LOOKING for treatment, because you've got biochemical blinders on, preventing you from seeing any way but down. Heck, *I* only started taking SAME for my arthritis, not to treat depression, and a month later suddenly noticed that I hadn't thought about killing myself in weeks. If not for that accident I'd probably STILL be thinking of carving knives as bath toys.
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
well i dont wish to derail this thread, but if someone else wishes to create a seperate thread about the topic of suicide and those with chemical imbalances, i'll speak my mind there.
Brett Bellmore
Member
But unless we made it specific to killing yourself with a gun, it wouldn't be gun related, and would be off topic. 
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