"Why would anyone buy a revolver?"

Status
Not open for further replies.
I've posted this on a couple other forums I frequent, first time here. Usually good for some spirited debate. Enjoy (or hate it, doesn't really matter to me)

Revolver VS auto. Random thoughts.
I started out shooting revolvers, years ago. Revolvers are quite reliable. Autos came along and designs improved, bullet shapes improved. The reliabilty of the auto came up to what I felt was the level of a good well maintained revolver. And I carried an auto.

Some random observations I have discovered. Revolvers will occasionally malfunction. So will autos. Lets remove parts breakage from the equation for a bit. I can accept the fact that a high quality auto is just as likely, or unlikey, to break a part that stops the gun from functioning, as an equal quality revolver. I have actually broken more parts in auto's than revolvers, but, I can attribute that to sheer luck. Slide stops have broken, firing pins have broken, but, statistically, I would argue that neither one is likley to just "break" when you need it.

On the few occasions that I have had a revolver stop working, it was a cumalitive effect of shooting. It started to get dirty, crap under the extractor star, the barrel cylinder gap got lead and powder residue, the chambers got sticky from lots of .38's and then having to force a .357 in the chamber. In other words, most of the problems came on slowly. I knew, eventually, the gun was going to stop working. The trigger pull got heavier, it was harder to close the cylinder, something along those lines.

But, for no apparent reason, a clean well lubed auto, would sometimes just not feed, fire or eject a round. Bullet nose caught on the feedramp, empty failed to get out of the way of the next round, some other failure that seemed to occur randomly, and without warning.

Now, standing on the the line, at the range, neither gun failed very often. Nice firm grip, dry hands, locked wrists, all is well in the world of handgunning.

Recently, I have watched a few episodes of "Under Fire" on Court TV. Autos, good quality (and, hopefully) well maintained autos, sometimes crap out in the middle of a gunfight. Whats the difference? Weak one handed grip, rolling around on the ground, upside down, shoved against the bad guy, sweaty blood covered hands, whatever. The auto needs a solid platform to work off of. Something it can't get in a real world, up close gunfight.

At a distance, involved in a shootout, the auto's rarely seem to jam, much as I would expect. But, if its a fight, that leads to a gunfight, the auto may turn into a single shot.

A particular episode that comes to mind is the Officer that was fighting a real, no kidding boxer, that was about to beat the Officer to death. He finally drew his pistol and got off one shot, in the BG's midsection, with little effect, the BG grabbed the gun and beat the Officer with the gun, tossed it and the Officer picked it back up later in the fight. (Interesting video if you ever get a chance to see it)

On duty, I have to carry a Glock 35. And, I'm not sure I am ready to give up the general reliabilty, mag capacity and ease of shooting of a good auto for the vast majority of shooting situations. But, as a back up, I carry a 642. And, it seems alot of others are big fans of the little revolvers as back up guns.

But, Off duty, I find myself carrying a 3" S&W M65 more and more. I envision an off duty encounter being a very fast fight that turns into a gunfight. Bad guy rushing you with a knife, BG jumping you, knocking you down and attacking you, two guys pinning you into a corner and the fight is on. Capacity becomes secondary to utter reliability for me at that point. I can still get good hits with a revovler out to 25 yards or so, if I have to, but, its not really something I see happening. Truth be known, the odds of needing a gun at all are pretty remote, but, we all plan for the unexpected.

SO, what are some others thoughts? Have you taken your favorite defense auto out to the range, held it with your left hand, bent your wrist and elbow and tried getting off as many shots as you could? Upside down? Cover your hands in soapy water and empty a magazine? Shove it into the target and see if it gets pushed out of battery? Does it jam after the first shot? I have, and, the reliabilty of a previously Utterly reliable auto went down hill.

If this little ramble gets a few people to thinking, and making you more aware of you and your guns abilities and limitations, great. If it just makes you train harder, for what YOU consider a real world gunfight, even better. Practice alot, and, best to all.

Now, interestingly, since I wrote this, I have put about a thousand rounds through a Sig P239 DAK in .357. I can't make that little gun burp, no matter what I do. Maybe its the 9mm bullet going in the 10 mm hole, speed of slide, I dunno, but it has been unbelievably reliable. And, doesn't beat the crap out of my hand.
 
Revolver because

I am old-fashioned person and like 1 MOA croups to 100 yards witch Dan Wesson supermag. .38spl Renato Gamba I like too. I´m reloader and don´t like to picking up cases.:rolleyes:
 
+1 to sgt127

Some autos are now as reliable as revolvers when punching paper on the range, but add in a frantic fight, limp-wristing during a struggle, etc., and I'd count on the revolver to be more reliable.
 
I´m reloader and don´t like to picking up cases.
-KI.W.
Click to expand...

+1
I second that, even with my 30-30 lever gun I have searching all over for spent brass, and fighting for it when the range officers come by with the brooms.
 
sgt127 wrote:
Now, interestingly, since I wrote this, I have put about a thousand rounds through a Sig P239 DAK in .357. I can't make that little gun burp, no matter what I do. Maybe its the 9mm bullet going in the 10 mm hole, speed of slide, I dunno, but it has been unbelievably reliable. And, doesn't beat the crap out of my hand.
Click to expand...
Yes, the bottle shaped 357 SIG is the most reliable round around, maybe the best reason to own one, apart form the 357 magnum like performance with 124gr. projectiles.
Average Joe Wrote:
Because a revolver will never jam in a gunfight.
Click to expand...
Never had my 357 SIG malfunction, or my Bersa 9mm for that matter. Shot over 1000 reloads in two days during classes, barely scrapped the barrel and oiled the rails a bit between classes). I DID have malfunctions with a revolver though, sparkling new SS Taurus Tracker 357 magnum, and it required me to wait for a while until it cooled down, not something I’d like to do in a gunfight.
There’s a reason why military and LE have moved to pistols. These days service autos can take much more abuse than revolvers.

FerFAL
 
The way I see it, revolvers and automatics are kind of like automatic and manual transmissions in cars. Why would anyone want a manual? An automatic can shift faster than a human ever could, and calculate the proper shift point more precisely. You could make arguments for manuals like improved gas mileage, etc, etc... but when it really comes down to it, manuals just make driving more fun.
 
I like shooting my S & W 625 with the full moon clips in .45 ACP. I also
have a good supply of .45 Auto RIm. The .456 ACP brass I recover from
the full moon clips makes for a) easy retrieval, and b) a good source for
relaods with the .45 ACP ammo for my next gun purchase - a 1911.

I also have a project in a conversion for my Marlin 1894 from .45 Colt to .45 AR, so I can use the ammo I have custom load of 200 gr and 225 gr. Leadhead cast bullets in Starline brass, as well as Hornady 200 gr JHP XTP
in both the 625 and 1894.
 
Because I don't relish the thought of trying to tap, rack, bang with one hand, while the other hand is busy trying to keep someone from stabbing me to death.
 
A couple quick points after reading 60-70% of this thread (It's HUGE!):

1. It's all about the sights:

2. I remember reading something a ways back that mentioned an overall combat hit percentage being somewhat (though not massively) better with revolvers amongst civilian/LE type shootings. The author expressed the opinion, and I concur, that the reason for more hits was the large, blade type sight on the front of most revolvers (this was at a time when medium size carry revolvers were still more common), which helped less-than-expert shooters naturally focus on the front sight. Obviously, this would not be helpful with most snubbies with their dinky little sights.

3. For full or mid-sized carry guns, revolvers tend to have that prominent front blade sight. Autos tend to have stubbier blade sights or those $%@$#^$@#^@%$-ing three dot sights, which I find FAR from intuitive or accurate. For many inexperienced shooters, the three dot system lends itself to spending all your time trying to get all those dots lined up correctly (HK sights really piss me off), though some are better than others (CZ-P01). Even if the vertical alignment of those revolver sights are not perfect, the left-right sight alignment is natural and relatively accurate even for less-than-expert shooters. Of course, a bright orange or red coat of paint on the back of the blade sight doesn't hurt.

3. Add to that that a lot of perople are intimidated by autos. Their workings and operation seem pretty arcane to a lot of people, especially once you get into things like slide releases, decocking levers, manual safeties, magazine releases, grip safeties, etc, like on some of the more complicated (but by no means uncommon) autos.

4. Ease of cleaning for the technically challenged. To clean a modern revolver, you open the cylinder and clean exposed parts. Maybe a bit under the extractor. To clean an auto requires disassembly and reassembly. Even a gun as easy to break down as a USP requires that you learn how to take it apart and put it back together....and remember how to do it 5 years from now when you pull it out of your sock drawer (after not touching it once in all that time) because your boyfriend is making threatening calls in the middle of the night and you want to make sure it's in working order. The revolver, you unload, it, dry fire once or twice, wipe it off, and reload it. While the auto's magazine springs are probably fine, you'd still have to remember how to break it down, clean it, and reassemble. That's a lot to ask of a reluctant gun-owner, elderly grandmother raissing her grandchildren alone.
 
Clearly, the auto is the better choice always. Obviously, the revolver the the only way to fly.

Admitted I was powerless over either......I just want more of both.
 
I know that both my revolvers will function 100% for more than one shot, unless I hit the lottery in reverse and somehow would get hold of some totally defective ammo. Hasn't ever happened, so I would still give my revolvers a 100% chance of successfully cranking off six shots.

All my present semiautos, with one exception, so I'm not going to count it, have been 100% reliable, out of the box, but having had cases that are misshapened, and bullets not seated correctly cause jams in the past, I just can't bring myself to entirely trust my semi's if it came down to risking my life on their functioning, so at home, I have one of my two DW .357's in a nicely hidden spot, loaded and ready. It's not pretty, a mix of parts from a stainless 715 and a blued 15, but it works perfectly.

When I get around to getting my CCW, I will probably carry one of my semiautos, but I don't think I will ever be 100% confident about it firing more than one shot.
 
Just because they are pretty!!! Besides that they always go bang unless you have a bad primer, but then the next one goes bang.
 
It's amazing how many people are absolutely convinced that revolvers are 100% proof against any sort of failure.

Yeah, revolvers never have the cylinder fall out. They are always sealed up airtight, so grit can't possibly get into the internals. The ejector rod never unscrews under recoil. The internal parts of all revolvers are made of pure diamond so they never break. Bullets will absolutely never jump crimp, especially not in the lightweight .357s everyone loves so much. And, of course, revolvers have a magical mechanism which causes the cylinder to turn under all circumstances, even if a dozen crazed chimpanzees are dangling from it.
 
It is indeed believed by many that a revolver cannot malfunction, but that is a misconception. I have had sixguns bind from debris under the extractor, and this can happen with a clean weapon in the first reload, if the debris is bulky enough. I remember keeping a old toothbrush in my back pocket on duty weapon qualification day, and during shooting schools, when I used sixguns as duty sidearms. (Admittedly, modern duty ammo burns much cleaner than the old practice stuff.) Screws can loosen and fall out, ejector rods can loosen and back out against the front lock-up point, which prevents the cylinder from being opened, and springs can break. I have experienced all of these, and have learned to be vigilant. I also tend to carry more than just one firearm, to the point of tending to feel just a bit uncomfortable if I only have one with me. Not paranoid, but kinda like proceeding on a long trip without a spare tire for the car. It doesn't matter, auto or revolver, they are mechanical devices, and can malfunction. I guess the thing with autos is that feeding and extracting are done automatically, whereas a revolver is fed and brass dumped manually, giving the shooter a greater sense of control. But, I have seen revolver shooters flub extraction and reloads! Revolver shooters sometimes forget the importance of gravity! :eek: Autos that FTF or FTE can drive us crazy, but many will break-in and work fine after a while, yet the early malfunctions are remembered, affecting our faith. Ah, starting to ramble; time to wind this down. Test your weapons for reliability, and maintain them; either system can be as reliable as mechanically possible.
 
First off. Great thread. It's obvious RyanM that you worked hard to be detailed in description of things new shooters think about.

I noticed in your picture of the two guns with shells that you didth address width. Often autoloaders and revolvers can have different grips installed to alter this, but for any model, the sliide or cylinder width is basically fixed. In that picture, the glock was narrower. (This has been my experience as well, that an autoloader of same barrel length, height, caliber is often thinner. There may quite possibly be exceptions that I don't know about.)

Originally posted by Cosmoline:
This is an interesting comparison, and throws light on an aspect of semis I've overlooked--the shifting weight....For me that change means I have to make adjustments as the semi empties out. Felt recoil and balance alike all shift a little with each round downrange. I don't like that
Click to expand...
Although this means a guns recoil increases incrementally with each fired shot, both types of guns experience this. The autoloader obviously has a larger range as it doesn't store fired casings, and often begins with more ammunition.

However, to say that the balance on an autoloader changes, would be ignoring that autoloader balance changes front to back while revolver balance changes side to side. It's entirely routine for a revolver with half a cylinder fired to have empty casings in one side and unfired "heavy" cartridges in the other. If the change in weight distribution affects the up or down tilt of the barrel on an autoloader, then weight distribution also affects the tendency of a revolver to "roll over" on its side. Personally, I think that in both cases, the small and gradual change in balance (not talking about recoil) isn't likely to be noticed by most shooters.

Originally posted by Baba Louie:
What about the physics/dynamics of shooting? Bore axis placement relative to grip (anchorage) rotation (or resistance to same), dampening of energy (slide sping action v. Hand absorption/cylinder-barrel gap), etc.
Click to expand...
It seems the dynamics of shooting, especially recoil characteristics, would be the next most logical thing to discuss with new shooters.

Originally posted by 357wheelgunner:
Revolvers are easier to conceal thanks to their curved handle profile, semis have the back of the slide poking out,
Click to expand...
On some autoloaders the slide does NOT poke out enough to print, others it does. This is a model issue, not a platform issue. I will say that I find a curved revolver handle alot easier to draw out of my front pocket than any autoloader that I've tried. Seems (to me) like the auto requires an abrupt change in direction mid-draw to accomodate the angle between grip and slide versus the curving draw of a revolver.

Originally posted by MiamiGabe:
4)Cause cowboys and Teddy Roosevelt used them.
Click to expand...
Although I agree with the sentiment, (and am also a Gabe,) it's probably not the best reason for recommending one to a new shooter.

Originally posted by shepsan: (and similar sentiment expressed by other)
On the other hand, because of cylinder limitations with a revolver, I am simply more frugal trying to make each of the fewer rounds in the cylinder count.

My laziness has made me a more accurate with a revolver.
Click to expand...
Number of shots in your gun is mutually exclusive with accuracy. It DOES affect your mentality. You deliberate choice of a target and practice affect your accuracy. What people with this sentiment are saying is that they FEEL like they'll get more accurate shots with a revolver, not that the gun is more accurate. SprayandPray doesn't work with autos OR revolvers, and picking your target works with both. We need to be careful not to let our biases/emotions limit the options to a new shooter.

Originally posted by Schwebel:
1. Maintenance: A wheelie is so easy to clean after a range session, you don't have to spend an hour trying to get the crap out of every crevice. There is no magazine to take apart and clean.
Click to expand...
Can't argue that one, surprised it wasn't brought up before. I love my autos, but cleaning them takes so much longer.

Originally posted by Schwebel:
2. Reliability: I have never seen/owned a wheelie that did not go bang when the trigger was pulled.
Click to expand...
Lemme tell you, when cylinder timing begins to go, it's just as frustrating as recoil spring/FailtoFeed problems. And, in my experience, alot more confusing (and potentially dangerous). Obviously this is a bigger problem with older/cheaper/used guns. (Which may be all a new shooter is willing to/can invest in a firearm.) In that aspect, the advantage goes to the autos.
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Schwebel:
1. Maintenance: A wheelie is so easy to clean after a range session, you don't have to spend an hour trying to get the crap out of every crevice. There is no magazine to take apart and clean.

Can't argue that one, surprised it wasn't brought up before. I love my autos, but cleaning them takes so much longer.
Click to expand...

Missed that one somehow. Personally, I'm the opposite. It takes much longer to scrub out 5 chambers plus the barrel, than it does to wipe down the frame rails and clean out one barrel. Really, why would you bother to take an auto down completely, including the magazine? That'd be like completely detail stripping a revolver and scrubbing every part, which would take just as long.
 
Raises hand...

I know the answer to this question.

The same reason Army pilots carry them

You can use a revolver ONE HANDED

So even if you are stuck in a tree, have a broken arm, etc.

You are not defenseless.

Well thats what the Army manual said any how.
 
I can use my semi-auto ONE HANDED, including reloads. So if I am stuck in a tree, have a broken arm or whatever, I am not defenseless.

:)

pax
 
Because handguns were ment to be round, not square. :D

I think I really like revolvers better for several reasons that don't relate to self defense, really, just personal choice. I like the accuracy, the power of a magnum revolver, and the rugged design for outdoor uses. I like the compact power of the .357 magnum cartridge in my Ruger SP101. I just really prefer the ergos of the revolver, too. For me, the revolver is a great choice in CCW and hunting and for outdoor carry. The auto is a great choice for CCW.....about it....well, military and police work, but I'm not in the military and not a cop.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

David E
  • Locked
Ruger SP-101 What's the deal ?
2 3
Replies
65
Views
5K
TUBBY1
TUBBY1
G
  • Locked
Real world ballistics - 2.75 inch .357 vs .40 S&W Glock 23
Replies
11
Views
2K
Scoob
S
N
  • Locked
IWB holster for 4" bbl revolver
Replies
3
Views
648
Paladin38-40
P
C
  • Locked
My Dynamic CCW Duo!!
Replies
4
Views
672
hifi
H
S
  • Locked
Federal Vital-Shok 180 grain Cast Core Velocity
Replies
0
Views
581
Southern Shooter
S
Back
Top