280PLUS
Member
Why do the troops I see on the tube always rest the buttstock of their rifles on top of their shoulders instead of tucked into them?
signed,
Curious
signed,
Curious
Why?
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Chipperman
Member
Depending on the optic set up and what they are wearing for armor/helmet/goggles etc, it can also help to get a better sight/optic picture without bending the head over to the side.
Dave Markowitz
Member
You'll notice too that you generally only see this with guys armed with M-16s, which have a fixed buttstock. I don't recall seeing anyone armed with a M-4 -- which has a telescoping stock -- doing this. IMO, it would make sense to have all of our M-16s refitted with telestocks, which allow adjustment for varying amounts of clothing, tactical vests, and body armor.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
They do it because the M16A2/A3/A4s length of pull is too long for the average shooter. In a fighting (CQB) stance, you use a shorter length of pull than you do in a standing offhand target shooting stance. Add in body armor and the stock seems even longer.
So essentially what the military does is teach them to shoot nose-to-charging handle to get a good repeatable cheek weld and then they make it obscenely difficult to achieve that cheek weld unless they hold the rifle "bazooka" style with the stock over their shoulder. Throw in limited eye-relief optics like the ACOG that can only be mounted so far back and you pretty much force that stance on anyone not using a collapsible stock.
So essentially what the military does is teach them to shoot nose-to-charging handle to get a good repeatable cheek weld and then they make it obscenely difficult to achieve that cheek weld unless they hold the rifle "bazooka" style with the stock over their shoulder. Throw in limited eye-relief optics like the ACOG that can only be mounted so far back and you pretty much force that stance on anyone not using a collapsible stock.
jefnvk
Member
I'm going with everyone else. I shot one once. At the time I didn't notice, but when I looked a picture of me, I realized that the very bottom of the buttplate was just in contact with the top of my shoulder. Not thrown way over the shoulder, but just about.
MudPuppy
Member
I've seen it with the M-4's too.
While not certain, I think it may have something to do with those sights being a half a foot above the barrel and requires you to stick your noggin waaaay up over cover...which I know I don't to do when bullets are zinging in.
While not certain, I think it may have something to do with those sights being a half a foot above the barrel and requires you to stick your noggin waaaay up over cover...which I know I don't to do when bullets are zinging in.
shoobe01
Member
Based on some of the responses, I guess I'd have to say 'how on top'?
A lot of respectable shooting people teach to put the toe of the stock into "the pocket" of your shoulder. When your arm is in shooting position, and the elbow is up especially, there is a little notch right under the collarbone and just before you get to the shoulder joint. Use your other hand and you can feel it.
Anyway, depending on the angle, shooter's build, etc. sometimes this looks real funny.
For rifle fully on top of the shoulder, I have see a few people doing so when wearing riot shields and the like, to get the gun high enough because they cannot tuck their head in.
There is also something about free-recoil with certain shotgun trainers these days, but I can't recall the point of this.
Additionally, it can be seen as the first transition from "indoor ready." You carry the gun almost totally vertical, but with both hands on the gun where they normally go. The stock is up real high, so when you rotate to fire it can be on top of the shoulder. You are supposed to then transition to a normal stock weld, but...
And, some people just don't shoot right.
Post images of the stance in question, if available.
A lot of respectable shooting people teach to put the toe of the stock into "the pocket" of your shoulder. When your arm is in shooting position, and the elbow is up especially, there is a little notch right under the collarbone and just before you get to the shoulder joint. Use your other hand and you can feel it.
Anyway, depending on the angle, shooter's build, etc. sometimes this looks real funny.
For rifle fully on top of the shoulder, I have see a few people doing so when wearing riot shields and the like, to get the gun high enough because they cannot tuck their head in.
There is also something about free-recoil with certain shotgun trainers these days, but I can't recall the point of this.
Additionally, it can be seen as the first transition from "indoor ready." You carry the gun almost totally vertical, but with both hands on the gun where they normally go. The stock is up real high, so when you rotate to fire it can be on top of the shoulder. You are supposed to then transition to a normal stock weld, but...
And, some people just don't shoot right.
Post images of the stance in question, if available.
280PLUS
Member
thanks folks,
My question came from the latest example I've seen and in this case it was about the female soldiers in Iraq who are on Security and technically not in combat situations even though they were in many a fire fight. They had a little footage of one under fire and she really was shooting bazooka style with her M-16 and the buttplate was about even with her back, I mean way back over her shoulder. She was in a crouched position. She pretty much looked like she knew what she was doing to me. I was duly impressed.
My question came from the latest example I've seen and in this case it was about the female soldiers in Iraq who are on Security and technically not in combat situations even though they were in many a fire fight. They had a little footage of one under fire and she really was shooting bazooka style with her M-16 and the buttplate was about even with her back, I mean way back over her shoulder. She was in a crouched position. She pretty much looked like she knew what she was doing to me. I was duly impressed.
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