(WI) Government should determine which weapons are legal (another kid w/o a clue)

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Drizzt

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Gun reform needed
Government should determine which weapons are legal

By Matthew Werlein
Published: Thursday, March 17, 2005

When you think of uses for guns, what comes to mind?

Hunting, protection and violence are the first three uses that come to my mind.

As of late, violence seems to be the overwhelming use for guns in our country.

In the past week alone, our nation has seen shootings in Georgia and Wisconsin and one has to ask themselves, what is going on?

While I am a full-fledged supporter of the Second Amendment, the right to bear arms, I have a really hard time believing that our forefathers, when writing the Amendment, thought ordinary citizens would end up hiding behind it to own semi-automatic weapons.

The original reason these gentlemen added this amendment was because they believed citizens of the newly created United States of America deserved to defend themselves against an enemy, foreign or domestic.

Let's recall that at that point in time, we had just defeated the British Army and ended the tyranny on our soil by the government of Great Britain.

These founding fathers had in mind that each individual had the right to own their rifles or pistols, and, while they never specifically clarified what type of arms these are, I really cannot fathom that AK-47s and semi-automatic machine guns were what they had in mind.

In the past, people hunted for their food, and they continue to do so today as well as hunting for sport.

We see students and families hunt in the late months of autumn, carrying their rifles because it is their right to own them.

However, and please someone correct me if I'm wrong here, I've never known a hunter who needed to use a machine gun to bag a deer.

So, that raises the question of why are we allowing citizens to buy them?

Yes, it may be illegal, and yet we see events happening frequently where these assault weapons are being used.

As much as I do not believe in the government regulating what ordinary citizens can do, I do believe it needs to step in and regulate what guns are to be declared legal and which are to be banned from our soil.

The only thing that these weapons are used for is to hunt people!

For example, I will use the case of the shootings Saturday in Brookfield.

The accused suspect, Terry Ratzmann, walked into the Sheraton Hotel and sprayed the crowd with his 9 mm gun, killing seven and injuring several more.

He shot 22 rounds in a matter of seconds.

Would he have been able to shoot off as many rounds as he did if he was using a rifle or a regular handgun?

How, do you ask, did he get a gun like that in the first place?

I know as well as you that people will end up getting what they want, regardless of rules or regulations.

At the same time, if the government were to step in and crackdown on these deadly weapons, which have a sole purpose to instigate violence, I believe these criminals would have a more difficult time obtaining the guns. Thus, I feel we wouldn't have as many of these brutal murders that we do now.

Being a resident of Waukesha, which neighbors Brookfield, I am appalled by the atrocity that was unveiled last weekend.

We, as a collective society, need to begin to take steps to end the violence that is currently plaguing our nation.

Can we really look the other way and claim that regulating certain types of weapons is infringing on the rights of individuals?

I can't imagine any student or member in our society fighting to retain ownership of an Uzzi.

We need to open our eyes and find the answer to getting rid of these guns.

Are we the hunters, or have we ourselves become the hunted?

Werlein is a junior print journalism major and a copy editor of The Spectator.

http://www.spectatornews.com/news/896185.html

Journalism major? Imagine that!
 
The original reason these gentlemen added this amendment was because they believed citizens of the newly created United States of America deserved to defend themselves against an enemy, foreign or domestic.

The only thing that these weapons are used for is to hunt people!

Well, so what's the problem?

And I think they have recreational use, as well.
 
While I am a full-fledged supporter of the Second Amendment...

Any time you hear a leftist extremist start out by voicing support for the Second Amendment—or any other American civil right, for that matter—you can bet your last nickel that what follows will be an attempted evisceration of that right or those rights.

People who support our civil rights actually—are you ready for this?—support them instead of trying to nullify them.

I have no idea why leftist extremists can't manage to tell better lies.
 
I'm starting to get tired of seeing the same anti- arguments over and over:

The Founding Fathers couldn't have envision and/or meant for 'civilians' to have *insert scary weapon of the week here*

No one needs a *insert scary weapon of the week here* to hunt deer.

I support the 2nd Admendment, but the gov't oughta *insert scary liberal idea here*.


:banghead: :cuss: :barf:
 
He forgot the part where the founders intended for us to have the same weapons that the official military uses.
 
My favorite reply to such arguments (and I do answer them in all seriousness, as this is a good way to convert would-be "anti's") is to ask them whether the same principle should apply to the First Amendment. After all, when that was formulated, the only "tools" available were quill pens, clunky movable-type printing presses, etc. Should the use of modern accessories such as laser printers, word processors, etc. be disqualified on the grounds that these are "automatic" or "semi-automatic", as opposed to the earlier "manual" technologies?

This usually gives them furiously to think... :evil:
 
I sent the Editor a letter, hopefully they'll do more fact-checking next time.
Editor:

As a fellow member of the student press, I was disheartened to read the commentary by Matt Werlein for the Thursday, March 17 issue titled "Gun Reform Needed". As journalists, we have a responsibility to the public to not only report accurate information, but also to fact-check the material we publish. Neither was done for this specific commentary.

The use of the word "semi-automatic machine gun" is laughable because it is blending two distinctly different weapons into the same category. The writer then questions the audience if a handgun or rifle could produce "22 rounds in a matter of seconds." Simply put, yes it can, and it is quite easy. Any semi-automatic handgun on the market is capable of firing as fast as the user is able to pull the trigger, making every semi-automatic firearm the same evil that the author says the "semi-automatic machine guns" are. The question he asks is not only misleading, it is also completely irrelevant.

It is a 9mm Uzi, not an "Uzzi."

As for dissecting the intent of the Founding Fathers, he states that "semi-automatic machine guns," and AK-47's were not what the founding fathers had in mind. The author is either not aware of, or is intentionally ignoring, the written explanation for the founding father's intent found in The Federalist Papers and various speeches and letters. In these historic documents, they describe the "militia" mention in the 2nd Amendment as the people as a whole, not a standing army. Additionally, the intent of the founding fathers was that citizens have access to the same light arms that the military did, which includes the AR-15 rifle (designated M-4 in the United States Army), and the M9 Pistol (a 9mm Berretta). All of these documents are readily available on the internet, but the author did not see it fit to tell us, the readers, what the intent of the Founding Fathers was ... instead, he took a wild guess not based on scholarly data available.

Even though the recent killings in Wisconsin were most likely committed with a fully automatic Uzi (which has yet to be fully determined by law enforcement personnel), the amount of murders committed with a semi-automatic weapon greatly (and I stress greatly) outnumber the deaths by fully automatic firearms. Additionally, the author seems to be opposed to any gun that he personally does not have much purpose. The .50 Rifles are one of those weapons, even though they have never been used in the commission of a violent crime in the United States.
Even though empirical data (FBI/Department of Justice statistics) proves otherwise, the author thinks fully automatic machine guns are the root of the gun problem. However, since fully automatic machine guns compromise a very, very small percentage of violent crimes in the United States, all reason points to poor enforcement of current laws that are on the books rather than what guns are available.

A word of advice for the Mr. Werlein: more research is needed before delving into an area which you apparently know little about. A thorough review of Constitutional case law (including United States v. Miller and various State Supreme Court decisions), an understanding of the judicial branch of the government, and a much more in-depth understanding of firearms (to learn what a machine gun is compromised of and how it is not "semi-automatic") would make your commentaries more believable. To people familiar with firearms, it is nothing more than a journalist spouting off on a topic which they take no time to research.

A word of advice for the Editors: Fact-check your commentaries more thoroughly when publishing on any topic, especially one where the background of a student is in journalism, but they discuss Constitutional law and "intent" of the Founding Fathers. Mr. Werlein is a copy editor, I would seriously consider teaching him basic fact-checking skills before he continues to write on topics which go straight over his head.

-------------------------------

James Mack, Jr.
Ed-Op Editor
Editorial Board Member

The Triangle - The Student Newspaper of Drexel University

[email protected]
[email protected]

-------------------------------
 
With a little education, this kid could be shown the error of his ways and become a strong pro-RKBA writer.
I disagree. He is prone to histrionics and bombast. Look at some of his prose:

As much as I do not believe in the government regulating what ordinary citizens can do, I do believe it needs to step in and regulate what guns are to be declared legal and which are to be banned from our soil.
"Which are to be banned from our soil." Who's this kid trying to impress? His high school social studies teacher?

As much as he doesn't believe in yatta yatta yatta, he goes on to say that he wants it to happen. Which is it, loser? Do you NOT believe in it, or do you BELIEVE in it? You can't say you don't believe in it as you call for it!!

The accused suspect, Terry Ratzmann, walked into the Sheraton Hotel and sprayed the crowd with his 9 mm gun, killing seven and injuring several more.

He shot 22 rounds in a matter of seconds.

Would he have been able to shoot off as many rounds as he did if he was using a rifle or a regular handgun?

How, do you ask, did he get a gun like that in the first place?
Um, forgive my ignorance. "A regular handgun"? I'm afraid I don't know what fits that definition. Isn't my USP a "regular handgun"? Is this ignoramus trying to assert that only revolvers are "regular handguns"?

Did anyone else notice this?:

...ordinary citizens would end up hiding behind it to own semi-automatic weapons.
then

These founding fathers had in mind that each individual had the right to own their rifles or pistols, and, while they never specifically clarified what type of arms these are, I really cannot fathom that AK-47s and semi-automatic machine guns were what they had in mind.
***?! "Semi-automatic machine guns"?

Let's hope the military doesn't start mounting those on its fixed-wing helicopters. :rolleyes:

Then:

However, and please someone correct me if I'm wrong here, I've never known a hunter who needed to use a machine gun to bag a deer.

So, that raises the question of why are we allowing citizens to buy them?

Yes, it may be illegal, and yet we see events happening frequently where these assault weapons are being used.
This moron is reading right off the pages of HCI. It's sorta subtle, but he morphs seamlessly from ordinary weapons (9mm pistols, "regular pistols", etc.) to the "easy target" of full auto. He implies that semi-auto rifles are "machine guns," and clearly does not understand the difference. He is utterly ill-informed, or he is lying, just like any gun-ban advocate like him.

We know they don't belong discussing which guns a free people ought to have the right to own when they are incapable of delineating between revolvers, semi-autos and full auto "machine guns."

Pathetic, really.
I'll bet the kid fancies himself an authority, that people ought to be listening to, like he's some sort of voice of reason. Listening to sanctimonious drivel/crap like this makes me wanna puke. :barf:

-Jeffrey
 
I'm with you Doc. At one point was pretty stupid(and if you ask the wife, often still am :uhoh: ), and while I've always been an RKBA guy, I wan't consistent in other areas re: freedom. I've learned and changed, so could Mr. Werlein. Doesn't mean he will, but he might....Some turn out like :banghead: while others turn out to be :)
 
A couple of months ago I was flipping through the channels and came across a news show done by teens, for teens. What stopped me was that they were asking the question whether or not firearms should be allowed to be carried in public. I''ll never forget one response:

"People shouldn't be allowed to carry guns. The government will protect us."

I was laughing so hard that my wife came out to see if I was okay. It then struck me what a sad state of affairs we'll be in when these brain-washed ninnies are voting.
 
have a really hard time believing that our forefathers, when writing the Amendment, thought ordinary citizens would end up hiding behind it to own semi-automatic weapons.

The real difference here is that they punished criminals back then and had no reason to believe that we wouldn't be doing the same now.
 
I've never seen someone make a statement, then contradict themselves so many times in one paper.

While I am a full-fledged supporter of the Second Amendment, the right to bear arms, I have a really hard time believing that our forefathers, when writing the Amendment, thought ordinary citizens would end up hiding behind it to own semi-automatic weapons.

That's like saying, "You know, I'm not racist, but I hate Mexicans".

The original reason these gentlemen added this amendment was because they believed citizens of the newly created United States of America deserved to defend themselves against an enemy, foreign or domestic.

Which "semi-automatic machineguns" :rolleyes: and AK-47s are quite dandy for.

These founding fathers had in mind that each individual had the right to own their rifles or pistols, and, while they never specifically clarified what type of arms these are, I really cannot fathom that AK-47s and semi-automatic machine guns were what they had in mind.

They most certainly did clarify- the government cannot regulate ANY arms. The phrase, "...shall not be infringed", ring any bells?
 
Muskets v. AR-15's....Go team.

Isn't it funny how so many people support the Second Amendment.....if the Amendment merely means that we have the right to defend ourselves with Kentucky Long Rifles. Of course, if we only had those, then they would complain that their range is too great and we should only be allowed ordinary muskets.
Quote:
"The original reason these gentlemen added this amendment was because they believed citizens of the newly created United States of America deserved to defend themselves against an enemy, foreign or domestic."

That's right! We have the right to defend ourselves from our enemies! They will be coming with AR-15's and we will courageously fight them off with ball and powder! I'm sure that is what the founding father's invisioned......Not. Under the original intent, we should all be allowed fully automatic AR-15's or the latest in light weaponry.
Actually, upon further review, it appears as though only the "newly created United States" had the right to defend itself. Is he now suggesting, the 'old United States' does not?
Like HKOrion, I too saw a recent docu-drama, movie made for TV, about the bank robbery in CA a few years ago. They show the cops going into the local gun store for better weapons. They demand, "we need some assault weapons or semi-automatics." (suggesting they are the same or the evil twins of gundom) While their buddies are being shot in the street, the cops take the time to state, "I can't believe people can just come in and buy these type of weapons." He makes more comments similar to this, as he is holding a "Remington 700" with a heavy sniper barrel. It was sickening but funny. OH NO!....what if people could actually buy Remington 700's (my personal hunting rifle)...the streets will never be safe! It was also funny because cops would/should (I hope) know better than to use such terms and ask such stupid questions. The movie was straight propoganda.
 
He makes more comments similar to this, as he is holding a "Remington 700" with a heavy sniper barrel. It was sickening but funny. OH NO!....what if people could actually buy Remington 700's (my personal hunting rifle)...the streets will never be safe! It was also funny because cops would/should (I hope) know better than to use such terms and ask such stupid questions. The movie was straight propoganda.

That movie was just on the History Channel a few weeks ago. I had to laugh at some of the political inuendo they had imbedded in this show. The one thing they never said was that since 1934, full auto machine guns, such as the North Hollywood bankrobbers had, have been tightly regulated/controlled by Uncle Sam. These two lug nuts at the North Hollywood bank robbery surely had no "permits" to own those guns. It just goes to show how the govt. can put all the laws that they want in place, yet criminals will just thumb their noses at the govt.

I have never seen a car windshield shot at or fired upon with a high powered rifle. Has anyone here? Would a windshield shatter into a billion pieces instantaneously, or do the bullets pretty much go right through them, leaving a hole and some spider web cracking.

In this movie, the cops' cars were being hit by the bank robbers with AK-47's and the glass was just shattering. I was wondering if this was realistic or just more media entertainment?
 
When a good comedien talks about hunting a deer with a machine gun it will be funny. When a person tries to use a joke as a reasoned argument it's just wrong.

To summarize, in the history of the 2nd amendment only one Sup Crt. decision has come anywhere close to reducing its scope, and that case was literally one-sided as there was NOONE representing the party (Miller) or the 2nd Amendment at all. STILL it simply intones that short-barelled shotguns are not military weapons (which they were and are), that's all. It specifies, yet again, the all people shall be FREE TO OWN MILITARY WEAPONS, and that TAXES OR FEES THEREON ARE ILLEGAL.

By definition it is not illegal to own a fully-automatic weapon, it does not even have to be of this military, just militaristic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Cruikshank

"The Court found (contrary to modern Supreme Court rulings) that the 1st Amendment right to assembly "was not intended to limit the powers of the State governments in respect to their own citizens" and (neither directly supported nor directly contradicted by modern Supreme Court rulings) that the 2nd Amendment "has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the national government"."

the 2nd Amendment "has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the national government"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Also see 18 and 21, it's very simple. If you don't like the constitution change it. It's very simple to change it too, have 2/3 of the reps & the senators vote to do so, or have 2/3 of the legislatures of all the states vote for a convention on amending. The only numbers to remember are 2 and 3, it's very simple.

For instance you may wish to amend the constitution to extend the age bracket encompassing militia, due to longer life spans and better average health at the age of 45 in this century.
"Currently U.S. Code: Title 10: Section 311: defines the classes of the militia as
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia."
The non-Guard members of the militia are all able-bodied male citizens 17 to 45 years old. In essence, a person does not have to be in the National Guard to be in the militia."

As you can see with the first quote the Sup. Crt. is not as simple, or as legitimate, or as clear. The quote clearly elaborates on the 2nd amendment, "the 2nd Amendment "has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the national government"".

Once again, everyone should have to study the constitution in great depth, it could be done in only a couple days, and if the writer of the article we discuss had known any of this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution he would never be able to write such nonsensical material.
 
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