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Weapons bill passage raises veto questions
GOP 2 votes away from concealed-carry override
Madison - Assembly Republicans during an overnight session rewrote parts of the concealed weapons bill to attract more Democratic votes, and it worked in a way that raises questions about whether Gov. Jim Doyle's promised veto of the bill would stand.
Minutes after the changes were made, seven Assembly Democrats joined 57 Republicans at 2:40 a.m. Thursday in voting for the bill that would allow those 21 and older to obtain permits authorizing them to carry handguns, stun guns, non-switchblade knives or billy clubs.
Although the revised bill passed, 64-35, that was still short of the 66-vote Assembly majority needed to override any veto by the governor.
Two Republicans, Reps. Luther Olsen of Berlin and John Townsend of Fond du Lac, voted against it. But Townsend indicated later Thursday that he would reverse himself if it comes to an override vote, and Olsen said he would consider doing the same.
The Assembly vote returned the bill to the Senate, which is expected to quickly approve it Tuesday and lay it on Doyle's desk.
The middle-of-the-night concessions "make a lot of folks in this (Assembly) feel more comfortable" with repealing the ban of concealed weapons passed in 1870, said Rep. Scott Gunderson (R-Town of Norway).
Democratic Rep. Wayne Wood of Janesville said the final changes earned his vote. With them, he said, "this is a better bill - a much better bill."
The final Gunderson-Wood compromise that got the Assembly within two votes of being able to override a Doyle veto made these changes:
Requiring that anyone with a concealed weapon permit issued in another state must have completed a firearms training program similar to the one required in Wisconsin, or that person could not legally carry a weapon in Wisconsin.
Barring concealed weapons in any business with a liquor license - a change Rep. Leon Young (D-Milwaukee) said would close the "Chuck E Cheese" loophole. Young argued that adults who carry concealed weapons should not be allowed to take them into pizza parlors that cater to children and serve alcohol.
Prohibiting concealed weapons at all "organized" youth sporting events, so the governor would have to stop stirring up opposition by telling Wisconsin residents that the bill would let parents carry handguns to Little League games.
Broadening the list of health-care facilities where concealed weapons would be prohibited. Unless facility officials decided otherwise, the ban would apply to hospitals, nursing homes, mental health centers, abortion clinics and physicians' offices.
Deal struck
Assembly Republicans scrambled to negotiate the final changes with Democrats and National Rifle Association lobbyists who monitored the bill from the Assembly sidelines. Republicans had to be careful not to make so many changes that they would lose their GOP core votes.
"Little by little, these things came together," said Jim Fendry, director of the Wisconsin Pro-Gun Movement and one of the NRA strategists who negotiated the final compromise.
For example, Fendry said, Wood supported the bill but had decided that it wasn't fair for Republicans to kill every one of almost 70 changes proposed by Democrats.
Wood voted for the bill because some changes suggested by members of his party were in the final package, Fendry said.
Fendry said another Democrat, first-term Rep. Amy Sue Vruwink of Milladore, had refused to vote for the bill until the change keeping weapons out of health care facilities was added. Vruwink's district includes the Marshfield Clinic, whose executives did not want handguns brought into their medical centers, Fendry noted.
"We said, 'Yeah, I guess that's a problem,' " Fendry said.
When the bill was changed, Vruwink was one of the seven Democrats who voted for the bill.
Veto showdown
If Doyle makes good on his promise to veto the concealed carry bill, the state Senate would take the first vote to override. Only if the Senate voted to override would an Assembly vote occur.
But Fendry said he expects the state Senate to ultimately override the governor's veto, when at least four Democratic senators vote against their party's leader. Fendry identified those as: Roger Breske, Eland; Jeff Plale, South Milwaukee; Bob Wirch, Kenosha; and Julie Lassa, Stevens Point.
The Senate passed the concealed weapons bill, 24-8, last month, with now-recalled Sen. Gary George (D-Milwaukee) absent. On that vote, all 18 Senate Republicans were joined by six Democrats.
But Senate Democratic Leader Jon Erpenbach predicted that enough Democrats would stick together to block any override, which requires a two-thirds majority.
"In the end, we sustain it," said Erpenbach, of Middleton.
Erpenbach said the Assembly improved the concealed weapons proposal, but not to the point where it should become law. The Assembly "just kind of scratched the surface on what we're concerned about," Erpenbach said.
Doyle aide Dan Leistikow said it has become "comical" for the governor to point out problems with the concealed weapons bill and then watch Republican legislators scramble to try to fix those problems. "This bill really hasn't changed," he said.
For example, Leistikow said, Republicans amended the bill to ban concealed weapons from day care centers and Little League games only after the governor pointed out those loopholes. But the bill would still allow handguns to be carried into shopping malls, crowded movie theaters and Summerfest in Milwaukee, Leistikow noted.
He said that Doyle is not worried about losing override votes in the Assembly and Senate because of changes made to the bill Thursday. "That's not even a factor in his decision-making," the spokesman said.
But Fendry said that if the Senate overturned the governor's veto, gun owners who live in the districts of Olsen and Townsend would be asked to pressure those two Republicans into reversing their votes and providing a sufficient majority for the override.
Olsen said Thursday he voted against a similar bill in 2002 and had warned his fellow Republicans pushing the bill that he would do so again.
"I don't think Wisconsin has become so dangerous that we have to have people walking around with weapons to protect themselves," Olsen said.
But Olsen would not say what would happen if he gets a chance to vote on overriding the governor's veto. "I'll have to do some serious soul-searching between now and then," he said.
Townsend said his vote was influenced by finding the body of a neighbor, a single mother who was slain with a handgun 20 years ago by her boyfriend in Oklahoma.
"The memories remain forever," he said.
Townsend indicated that he would vote to override the governor's veto, however, if he got a chance to do so. "I'm not anti-gun," he said. "I will not be an impediment to the will of the majority."
From the Nov. 7, 2003 editions of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
Weapons bill passage raises veto questions
GOP 2 votes away from concealed-carry override
Madison - Assembly Republicans during an overnight session rewrote parts of the concealed weapons bill to attract more Democratic votes, and it worked in a way that raises questions about whether Gov. Jim Doyle's promised veto of the bill would stand.
Minutes after the changes were made, seven Assembly Democrats joined 57 Republicans at 2:40 a.m. Thursday in voting for the bill that would allow those 21 and older to obtain permits authorizing them to carry handguns, stun guns, non-switchblade knives or billy clubs.
Although the revised bill passed, 64-35, that was still short of the 66-vote Assembly majority needed to override any veto by the governor.
Two Republicans, Reps. Luther Olsen of Berlin and John Townsend of Fond du Lac, voted against it. But Townsend indicated later Thursday that he would reverse himself if it comes to an override vote, and Olsen said he would consider doing the same.
The Assembly vote returned the bill to the Senate, which is expected to quickly approve it Tuesday and lay it on Doyle's desk.
The middle-of-the-night concessions "make a lot of folks in this (Assembly) feel more comfortable" with repealing the ban of concealed weapons passed in 1870, said Rep. Scott Gunderson (R-Town of Norway).
Democratic Rep. Wayne Wood of Janesville said the final changes earned his vote. With them, he said, "this is a better bill - a much better bill."
The final Gunderson-Wood compromise that got the Assembly within two votes of being able to override a Doyle veto made these changes:
Requiring that anyone with a concealed weapon permit issued in another state must have completed a firearms training program similar to the one required in Wisconsin, or that person could not legally carry a weapon in Wisconsin.
Barring concealed weapons in any business with a liquor license - a change Rep. Leon Young (D-Milwaukee) said would close the "Chuck E Cheese" loophole. Young argued that adults who carry concealed weapons should not be allowed to take them into pizza parlors that cater to children and serve alcohol.
Prohibiting concealed weapons at all "organized" youth sporting events, so the governor would have to stop stirring up opposition by telling Wisconsin residents that the bill would let parents carry handguns to Little League games.
Broadening the list of health-care facilities where concealed weapons would be prohibited. Unless facility officials decided otherwise, the ban would apply to hospitals, nursing homes, mental health centers, abortion clinics and physicians' offices.
Deal struck
Assembly Republicans scrambled to negotiate the final changes with Democrats and National Rifle Association lobbyists who monitored the bill from the Assembly sidelines. Republicans had to be careful not to make so many changes that they would lose their GOP core votes.
"Little by little, these things came together," said Jim Fendry, director of the Wisconsin Pro-Gun Movement and one of the NRA strategists who negotiated the final compromise.
For example, Fendry said, Wood supported the bill but had decided that it wasn't fair for Republicans to kill every one of almost 70 changes proposed by Democrats.
Wood voted for the bill because some changes suggested by members of his party were in the final package, Fendry said.
Fendry said another Democrat, first-term Rep. Amy Sue Vruwink of Milladore, had refused to vote for the bill until the change keeping weapons out of health care facilities was added. Vruwink's district includes the Marshfield Clinic, whose executives did not want handguns brought into their medical centers, Fendry noted.
"We said, 'Yeah, I guess that's a problem,' " Fendry said.
When the bill was changed, Vruwink was one of the seven Democrats who voted for the bill.
Veto showdown
If Doyle makes good on his promise to veto the concealed carry bill, the state Senate would take the first vote to override. Only if the Senate voted to override would an Assembly vote occur.
But Fendry said he expects the state Senate to ultimately override the governor's veto, when at least four Democratic senators vote against their party's leader. Fendry identified those as: Roger Breske, Eland; Jeff Plale, South Milwaukee; Bob Wirch, Kenosha; and Julie Lassa, Stevens Point.
The Senate passed the concealed weapons bill, 24-8, last month, with now-recalled Sen. Gary George (D-Milwaukee) absent. On that vote, all 18 Senate Republicans were joined by six Democrats.
But Senate Democratic Leader Jon Erpenbach predicted that enough Democrats would stick together to block any override, which requires a two-thirds majority.
"In the end, we sustain it," said Erpenbach, of Middleton.
Erpenbach said the Assembly improved the concealed weapons proposal, but not to the point where it should become law. The Assembly "just kind of scratched the surface on what we're concerned about," Erpenbach said.
Doyle aide Dan Leistikow said it has become "comical" for the governor to point out problems with the concealed weapons bill and then watch Republican legislators scramble to try to fix those problems. "This bill really hasn't changed," he said.
For example, Leistikow said, Republicans amended the bill to ban concealed weapons from day care centers and Little League games only after the governor pointed out those loopholes. But the bill would still allow handguns to be carried into shopping malls, crowded movie theaters and Summerfest in Milwaukee, Leistikow noted.
He said that Doyle is not worried about losing override votes in the Assembly and Senate because of changes made to the bill Thursday. "That's not even a factor in his decision-making," the spokesman said.
But Fendry said that if the Senate overturned the governor's veto, gun owners who live in the districts of Olsen and Townsend would be asked to pressure those two Republicans into reversing their votes and providing a sufficient majority for the override.
Olsen said Thursday he voted against a similar bill in 2002 and had warned his fellow Republicans pushing the bill that he would do so again.
"I don't think Wisconsin has become so dangerous that we have to have people walking around with weapons to protect themselves," Olsen said.
But Olsen would not say what would happen if he gets a chance to vote on overriding the governor's veto. "I'll have to do some serious soul-searching between now and then," he said.
Townsend said his vote was influenced by finding the body of a neighbor, a single mother who was slain with a handgun 20 years ago by her boyfriend in Oklahoma.
"The memories remain forever," he said.
Townsend indicated that he would vote to override the governor's veto, however, if he got a chance to do so. "I'm not anti-gun," he said. "I will not be an impediment to the will of the majority."
From the Nov. 7, 2003 editions of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
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