Wife's/Young Son's First Elk Rifle?

[WyoCowboy]

I have an honest question for the more experienced hunters that have gotten their families hooked into hunting with them. What would some of you consider for a good first rifle(mainly caliber question) for your wife or 13 yo son of medium frame who has not shot centerfire rifles very much at all for the hunting of elk and deer?

Some calibers that I have pondered so far have been the 25/06, 257 Roberts, and maybe the .270 Win w/recoil pad (or heavier gun). I have not suggested my .280 Rem b/c it is light enough to kick like a mule. I am used to it and get along great with it but would be concerned with them shooting it.

Give me some of your ideas for me to digest for this first gun for them. BTW, they are planning on sharing a rifle for now b/c of not being able to afford 2 at this time.

Thanks alot!

 

[Superfly3176]

Remington 7mm Magnum.

 

[surjimmy]

Whatever it is a muzzlebreak will reduce the recoil. I have never hunted Elk, so what I say next is only information I have read or been told( So take it for what it's worth) 270 would be the smallest cal. I would hunt Elk with. Plus 1 for 7 mag with muzzlebreak, it will drop recoil to about a 243. My personal would be 300 WSM.

 

[Shawnee]

6.5x55 Swede

.270 with Remington "managed recoil" ammo

7x57 Mauser

7mm/08 with Remington "managed recoil" ammo

 

[35 Whelen]

I'm with Shawnee on this one, I hope Superfly3176 was joking, and I believe an ear-splitting muzzle brake would be the absolute worst thing you could do to a new shooter. Talk about inducing flinch! I hate being on a firing line when someone has one of those things.

There was an article in Handloader or Rifle magazine a couple of years ago on this very subject. The authors kids, and maybe his wife...don't quite remember...were all started on elk with a 7mm-08. He loaded for them either a Barnes X bullet or the discontinued Winchester Fail-Safe bullet. They all slew many elk with that little rifle.

I think the key to avoiding recoil shyness is to go at it gradually and always, always, always have them wear good hearing protection. Don't just plop them down at a bench and hand them a rifle. Start out with something small like a .22 LR and gradually work up to maybe a .410, then on to a light recoiling rifle, having them initially shooting offhand and at targets that react when they're hit. Something like clay pigeons or cans of water. The reason for this is that the shooter will be focused on seeing a shattering clay bird or an exploding can or bottle of water rather than anticipating the recoil of the rifle. It's the same principal that keeps hunters from noticing recoil when they're shooting game; they're watching for the animal to die, and not thinking about recoil!

Also, start them off shooting the guns that do have a bit of recoil offhand or at least standing up with a rest. After the prone position, shooting from a bench is the most painful way when it comes to actually feeling the recoil.

Of the four Shawnee mentioned, the 6.5x55 would recoil the least. With any of these cartridges, but especially the 6.5, you'd have to be very careful with your bullet selection for elk. I think you'd want a really good premium bullet.

I've read of people using the 25-06, but after personally watching bull elk die stubbornly after being hit with .33 and .35 caliber bullets, I'd want something a bit bigger than a .25 caliber.

Another thought: If you're a handlloader, you have a really nice solution. You could buy them a rifle chambered for a light recoiling deer caliber such as the 257 Roberts, then load your .280 down to 7mm-08 levels, or even lighter until they were able to get used to the recoil.
35W

 

[cliffy]

Elk Rifle

What have they shot so far, regarding to caliber? What do you think they could comfortably handle? Making flinchers out of family members is not conducive to creating great hunting partners or good shots. Start them out with .243 Winchesters or 25/06 Remingtons. .270 Winchesters will scare most would-be hunters on the first round at the practice range. cliffy

 

[41magsnub]

7x57 is a great choice, I killed many an elk and deer with mine as a kid. The only flaw is the factory ammo selection sucks.

If I had to do it over a 7mm-08 would be my first choice.

 

[Jeff F]

7x57 is a sweet shooting round.
The 7mm/08 would work.
I love the .303 British myself.
Hard to beat a .308 or 30-06.

 

[30-06 lover]

308 was what I started out with at 12 and with 150gr. Killed my first three deer with it and my first elk. I was fine so long as I didn't pound an entire box down range. For elk, the most they can handle. If you have any friends with different calibers, ask if your wife/kid can shoot it to see what kind of recoil they can handle. Elk are tough and need the most you can give it.

 

[surjimmy]

My mistake, I was'nt thinking about them being new shooters. A muzzlebreak might not be the best way to go. I have been told good things on the limb saver, what do you guys think about that.

 

[xx7grant7x]

I've got a nice weatherby mark V deluxe 300 wby mag for sale...http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=389709

 

[dakotasin]

A Remington M7 in 308 or 7-08 with a Kick-eez pad is the way to go here.

My 9 year old daughter runs a 300 WSM with reduced loads just fine (130 hornady/H-4895). Recoil is between 22-250 and 243.

Second the suggestion to ask friends, etc to borrow a gun. Shouldn't be any shortage of guns anywhere in WY. I'd help ya out if you were close enough, but it appears I'm about 3 hours north of you on 59...

 

[35 Whelen]

I have been told good things on the limb saver, what do you guys think about that.

I have a Limbsaver on my 358 Norma Mag and my dad has one on his 330 Dakota. The work really well.
35W

 

[cliffy]

A GOOD recoil pad is priceless

Recoil is the major detriment regarding new shooters. Ever fire a .30/30 with a curved steel butt-plate? That's enough to turn almost anyone off from ever firing another round. Even a .30/06 recoils less, regarding FELT recoil. A soft rubber recoil pad was the best invention since corn flakes; although, I prefer Honey-Nut Cherrios with traditional 1/2 and 1/2 Lake-o-Lakes 8% butter content. A .243 Winchester with 100 grain Nosler Partition or Speer Grand Slam bullet can and will seat an Elk, a .25/06 Remington can do a better job if a slightly misplaced hit happens. Recoil can produce a flincher, that can present grossly off-centered hits. Tracking a wounded beast is rarely fun, so hit your target squarely in the heart or neck vertibrae, and that does not require a lot of caliber horsepower and RECOIL. cliffy

 

[peyton]

I recommend trying out a few different calibers before you buy. You mention elk hunting, if you did not hunt Elk I would suggest 243. It does everything I need for texas deer.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

A 308 would be an EXCELLENT choice.

Start him/her at the range with a good recoil pad, a past recoil shield on their shoulder, and reduced recoil loads. May even want to start relatively close, say 50 yards.

Work up to full power loads and no past pad as they gain confidence/skill.

One word of warning- Those reduced recoil loads hit A LOT lower than full power ammo.

 

[woof]

I recently bought a rifle for a youngster and chose a .308 intending to use managed recoil ammo to start. It gives .30-30 ballistics which is great for deer and gets the kid used to the rifle without developing a flinch. Then when you are ready for the elk hunt he can move up to .308 loads. This also lets you pick a lightweight rifle, not a good idea when trying to keep recoil down. It's really like getting 2 rifles in one, .30-30 for now, .308 for later. Managed recoil ammo also available in .30-06, 7mm-08 and .270.

PS I found the managed recoil ammo to be very accurate and effective but you do need to sight the rifle in for it, and then resight later for full power loads.

 

[huntershooter]

If you reload and already have a .280 (7mm), the obvious answer is 7X57.
A "controlled expansion" TSX/Accubond of 160 gr.+ should be the ticket to 250 yds..

 

[skinewmexico]

My 13 year old son was scared to death of his 270. In a way, it was great, because I could say "clean your room, or I'll make you shoot your 270". Then I put a Limbsaver on it, and he shot 2 boxes from a bench in about 30 minutes, and wanted more.

 

[berettashotgun]

A 270 with 130's and a proper stock, and a 223 or 22-250 EXACTLY like it.
Practice rifle, play rifle.
My youngest can tell you all about practicing with a 22-250 then dropping the hammer on a deer with a 270.
That was with Ruger #1's. They have recoil amplifying stocks

 

[Chuck Spears]

Possible dilemma here. You want a cartridge that is strong enough to take down an elk but not strong enough to scare the wife/kid. Might not exist. It's possible to take an elk with some of the lighter cartridges that I've seen listed here, but shot placement is going to have to be good or the animal is going to suffer needlessly. So unless your wife/kid can shoot proficiently enough to drop an elk with one of these light loads, then don't let them hunt elk until they are comfortable enough to shoot one of the heavier cartridges with enough skill to drop the animal in a sporting way. I'm a life long hunter, not some PETA hippy. But it truly makes me sick to my stomach to see people take poor shots on animals and have to track them for a freaking mile while they bleed out and suffer. So unless your wife/kid can make a damn good shot with a smaller caliber or managed recoil load for the larger caliber, then just do the right thing and wait for their skill/comfort levels to reach the point of being worthy enough to take down an elk.

 

[cinteal]

It has been some time since I went Elk Hunting. I'm so out of shape I would probably need a 50 cal with some satelite optics or have the elk brought to me. But I do have experience in this regard . . .

First off, though I think it is too small, I have had two guides who carried 243. I have seen an elk shot with 243. It collapsed where it stood and dressing revealed a gelatinous mess where its heart used to be (front shot). The 243 has little recoil, short action, and it's easy to find ammo pretty much everywhere.

Some posters have recommended 280, 260 and a bunch of stuff with Xs in the title. They're great rounds, but sometimes hard to find in elk country (my experience with 7mm mag 15 years ago). Sure, take it with you, but stuff happens. Also, in magnum, these can pack a punch.

308 is always a good choice. It has more recoil than the 243 but not too bad. It's still short action and you can find ammo everywhere. This is still a military and police sniper round because of its accuracy and stopping power. Elephant have been taken with 308.

What I am going to recommend goes against my "finding ammo" point and even is problematic in finding a gun chambered for it, but the 257 Roberts is one of the best all around, accurate, and easy shooting calibers out there. You mentioned sharing because of funds. I can understand. Probably you want to make an investment in something that you'll want to shoot forever. This round fits that. I have one in Remington 700 (it was a custom job, one of these guys can give you better designations, 700CDL, etc.). I would not trade it for anything. First and foremost, it is accurate and flat shooting. Second, it has plenty of delivered energy at long range. Lastly, I don't hurt the next day after running a couple of boxes through it.

I may be a wuss, but this 240 pound, ex-athlete, southern boy puts quality recoil pads on all his centerfires. I don't see why not.

Sorry for speaking of myself in the 3rd person.

Good hunting.

 

[Auburn1992]

.260, .270, 7mm-08, .308, 30-06, .300 wsm

 

[HB]

I'd say the managed recoil .308 or .30-06 is the way to go, or if they are patient and good shots, a .30-30 with heavy hand loaded bullets (pointed). Just load two. If you can get them within a hundred yards, it should be OK. People hunt Elk with bows, so if you can get good penetration, why not?
Thank being said, I have never hunted elk.

HB

 

[jaholder1971]

.30/06 with premium 180 grain or heavier bullets.