Wife's/Young Son's First Elk Rifle?
- Thread starter WyoCowboy
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Tarvis
Member
For your birthday, a rifle, and for christmas, hearing aids.
I was initially thinking .243, but for Elk I'd say 7-08. 7mm rem mag is good for an adult male, not for a young boy or a woman.
A nice light recoil round that is great for deer, however for elk you have to be careful which bullet you choose and shot placement is less forgiving than something a little heavier. Probably not a good choice for an amateur shooter on elk.
I'm surprised Shawnee didn't curse you to hell for that suggestion. 300 wby is WAY too potent for a 13 year old. Shame on you.
I'd say a great way to let them decide would be to get a few buddies with different caliber rifles to loan 'em to you so your wife and kiddo can give them a try.
Shawnee
member
"I'm surprised Shawnee didn't curse you to hell for that suggestion. "
Neither you nor anyone else here has seen Shawnee curse ANYone to hell for ANY suggestion, Tarvis.
How about you knock off the flaming?
Neither you nor anyone else here has seen Shawnee curse ANYone to hell for ANY suggestion, Tarvis.
How about you knock off the flaming?
matrem
Member
As powerfull as they're comfortable with ,obviously.Stock shape & recoil pad(Limbsaver +1) can make a HUGE difference.
gvnwst
Member
.338 federal. 7mm mag muzzle energy with less recoil and 33cal bullets to boot. chambered in a model 70 or 700 would be ideal.
Jeff F
Member
A .243 can and has been used by riflemen to take elk, shot placement is everything. For anyone less then a rifleman, I myself think its on the light side.
kentucky_smith
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.270 is minimum in this state.
scythefwd
Member
garand. It will kick less than a .30-30, maybe even less than a 270 but still have enough umph to take an elk easily. It weighs 9.5 lbs, and with the right handloads will be very mild.
woof, -06 managed recoil is still faster and a heavier round than the .30-30 which means more kick if you are using the same weight rifle. I say that knowing the garand doesn't kick as much as my 7.5lb .30-30 because of the weight. Any good heavy (9 lb and up, bipod if you can find one to keep them stable) 06 would be a good round. Throw on a limbsaver and it should be pretty comfortable for even the slightest person.
woof, -06 managed recoil is still faster and a heavier round than the .30-30 which means more kick if you are using the same weight rifle. I say that knowing the garand doesn't kick as much as my 7.5lb .30-30 because of the weight. Any good heavy (9 lb and up, bipod if you can find one to keep them stable) 06 would be a good round. Throw on a limbsaver and it should be pretty comfortable for even the slightest person.
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AnaxImperator
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If it were my Wife/kids, I'd send 'em out with my good 'ol 7.62x54R Mosin Nagants.
dunnsguns
Member
I've shot several elk with a 270 but wouldn't recommend it for a beginner(you shouldn't count on perfect shot placement). My Dad started me with a 30-06 when I was 12. It was a Savage 110 with no recoil pad, but he was handloading some light loads for me (I always just thought I was tougher than all the other kids). I have also hunted with several people that have shot elk with 30-30's. I think what has been said about the.308 with the remington managed recoil would be great. Whatever you choose, he has got to practice with light loads and then you can resight it in for some hotter hunting loads. He wont feel the recoil til the next day. But dont hurt 'em!
Tarvis
Member
Well, it was tounge in cheek but apparently you don't understand that. "Damn you to hell" was an exaggeration, but you, in fact, are the king of belittling folks for their suggestions, so if I was "flaming" you it was not out of line.
Edit: Aha, found it. Here's a Shawnee quote for those out of the loop:
41magsnub
Member
That would depend on where you are... in MT it is legal. Might not be overly advisable depending on how far you plan to shoot and your abilities, but legal. If you do make sure to use a good expanding bullet of some type and not FMJ.
41magsnub
Member
A garand is sort of a big gun for a kid to pack around isn't it?
Tarvis
Member
A garand is a poor choice for a learning hunter.
scythefwd
Member
Tarvis, could you explain why? Other than the historical value, what makes it a poor firearm? The 13yo medium build son shouldn't have much of a problem with it. If he is taught how to use the sights and can use irons well...the rifle will be good enough out to 300y (400-500 take a bit more skill). The kick isn't hard, it will have the power needed for a 400+lb elk, and it is pretty much weather agnostic. His wife very well could be the same size as his 13yo son. I know several people that were doing cmp competitions with garands at that age. The biggest worry is weight of the arm, and that is a good thing here to an extent.
Tarvis, it also depends on what style of hunting they will be doing. Will they walk casually to the place where the elk graze most of the time, will they be actively stalking one elk all over the place, or will they be ambush (blind or stand) hunting? Each method brings with it it's own set of difficulties. If the child will be running all over the mountains, I agree, the garand is not ideal, but it will do. Most arms of a large enough caliber to use on elk at any distance will kick, so the garand's relatively light kick for the caliber while using full power loads (up to 2800fps with 170gr bullets) could be considered a good thing.
Once I get my reloading stuff, I will probably be using mine to hunt as well. I would recommend a .30-30, but I don't agree that it would have enough umph to humanely kill an elk.
Tarvis, it also depends on what style of hunting they will be doing. Will they walk casually to the place where the elk graze most of the time, will they be actively stalking one elk all over the place, or will they be ambush (blind or stand) hunting? Each method brings with it it's own set of difficulties. If the child will be running all over the mountains, I agree, the garand is not ideal, but it will do. Most arms of a large enough caliber to use on elk at any distance will kick, so the garand's relatively light kick for the caliber while using full power loads (up to 2800fps with 170gr bullets) could be considered a good thing.
Once I get my reloading stuff, I will probably be using mine to hunt as well. I would recommend a .30-30, but I don't agree that it would have enough umph to humanely kill an elk.
Shawnee
member
(Garand)..."weighs 9.5 lbs".
For starters... wife or kid may not want to slog the hills with something that heavy.
For starters... wife or kid may not want to slog the hills with something that heavy.
Chuck Spears
member
My family has a tradition of always using bolt actions or single shots for teaching new hunters. Helps imprint the importance of patience and getting off a clean hit with your first shot. Otherwise a child might be inclined to rush the shot a little since they know they can pop off the second and third and so on shots with just a pull of the finger.
Tarvis
Member
You have to realize that some people have zero experience with firearms, so clearing a jam or remembering how to find the safety should be very easy so that the fundamentals can be paramount. For example, you wouldn't have your grandpa start out with linux, despite its benefits and all that. Yes, the garand would make a good enough elk rifle, but only in the right hands. It's not really the recoil or the sights or arguably the weight (which is probably a lot for a female or a young hunter), mostly the knowledge required to operate it properly. I remember the first pheasant I had a chance to shoot at when I was 12; I couldn't get the safety off, mostly because I was pushing on the slide lock and not the safety switch.
243 and 25-06 arguably don't have enough energy to "humanely" kill an elk, but with proper bullet selection and shot placement, it is well within the realm of possibilities. Who knows what the number actually is, but I'd bet the number of elk taken with a 30-30 is 10 times that of any other cartridge in existence.
+1. They'll learn the hard way if they miss.
ice monkey
Member
It’s all been said one way or another here already but you know it’s hard to give good advice without knowing the individuals involved, plus the kind of hunting involved …
Take for example this story … Way back when my Uncle and I were younger men my uncles new neighbors thought it would be a good thing to take their kid out and teach him how to shoot and hunt respectfully. I remember my uncle got the kid shooting a .22 and working the kid up to a .243. The kid was an awesome shot.
Anyway, when the day came to hunt a “real” deer - we walked that poor kid mile after mile while he carried his heavy gun before we found a deer that he could take a shot at. The kid was so tired and excited all at the same time that he didn’t mount the rifle properly and well … it wasn’t a very clean shot either. The poor kid was mortified and in pain! I am sure that’s not how any of us planned that scenario playing out … Sigh.
I don’t know what ever became of the kid. But I do know that he didn’t go out with us again … I think hunting elk may be best left for adults – but then that may not be true for all kids. All I know is that when and if my kids ever decide to hunt – it will be on a graduated system. In my mind I’ll have him/her prove themselves with a .22, then a .223 and then move them up to a .243 or a .6.5 or its equivalent, depending on the kid. After that if they are up to it, I’ll fork out the cash for an “elk” gun and hunt … Or load their 6.5 or 7-08 appropriately if I thought they could do their part. Besides I think “graduated hunting” is good fun for any kid.
That’s my .02 cents anyway … good luck.
Take for example this story … Way back when my Uncle and I were younger men my uncles new neighbors thought it would be a good thing to take their kid out and teach him how to shoot and hunt respectfully. I remember my uncle got the kid shooting a .22 and working the kid up to a .243. The kid was an awesome shot.
Anyway, when the day came to hunt a “real” deer - we walked that poor kid mile after mile while he carried his heavy gun before we found a deer that he could take a shot at. The kid was so tired and excited all at the same time that he didn’t mount the rifle properly and well … it wasn’t a very clean shot either. The poor kid was mortified and in pain! I am sure that’s not how any of us planned that scenario playing out … Sigh.
I don’t know what ever became of the kid. But I do know that he didn’t go out with us again … I think hunting elk may be best left for adults – but then that may not be true for all kids. All I know is that when and if my kids ever decide to hunt – it will be on a graduated system. In my mind I’ll have him/her prove themselves with a .22, then a .223 and then move them up to a .243 or a .6.5 or its equivalent, depending on the kid. After that if they are up to it, I’ll fork out the cash for an “elk” gun and hunt … Or load their 6.5 or 7-08 appropriately if I thought they could do their part. Besides I think “graduated hunting” is good fun for any kid.
That’s my .02 cents anyway … good luck.
woof
Member
ice monkey, +1
Matt-J2
Member
Folks are still successfully killing Elk with 55# traditional bows(some lighter, some heavier) and patched round ball muzzleloaders. That sort of thing always adds a bit of perspective on these caliber/cartridge threads for me.
Doesn't mean a .22 Hornet is going to perform admirably, but it just might mean you don't need the latest 40.08 SuperDuperMag, either.
I know most folks haven't been saying that, but figured I'd jump in, just in case.
Doesn't mean a .22 Hornet is going to perform admirably, but it just might mean you don't need the latest 40.08 SuperDuperMag, either.
I know most folks haven't been saying that, but figured I'd jump in, just in case.
michael_aos
Member
I'm going to say 260 Remington or 7mm-08 Remington.
I personally used a 270 WSM last year and will again this year. Just because I haven't found a factory 260 Remington load that shoots well in my Remington 700 titanium.
I think the 260 Remington is enough though.
I only mention 7mm-08 Remington because it's a lot more popular chambering and still doesn't beat you up. Again, plenty of gun, if not more so.
Mike
I personally used a 270 WSM last year and will again this year. Just because I haven't found a factory 260 Remington load that shoots well in my Remington 700 titanium.
I think the 260 Remington is enough though.
I only mention 7mm-08 Remington because it's a lot more popular chambering and still doesn't beat you up. Again, plenty of gun, if not more so.
Mike
280shooter
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this is what I would do,Im not telling you what to do.
If it were me,I have the Gun smith or my self to add a super soft recoil pan,
Then i would reload.I would back off the powder charge,I think you would be happy with the results,then once they get used to shooting that gun, then you could up the powder charge,
i did that with my kids,that worked well with them,
If it were me,I have the Gun smith or my self to add a super soft recoil pan,
Then i would reload.I would back off the powder charge,I think you would be happy with the results,then once they get used to shooting that gun, then you could up the powder charge,
i did that with my kids,that worked well with them,
W Turner
Member
Why not .35 Remington chambered in a Marlin 336?
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