Wild a** thought; pro gun class action suits?

[Guy B. Meredith]

Humor me. I am not a lawyer and may not phrase the concepts well.

Has anyone brought up the idea of pro gun class action suits?

1. By general ownership based on discriminatory (bigoted) laws against recreational users where they affect only responsible owners and fail to affect criminal use?

2. Against California by firearms industry for extorsionist safety testing required for even color changes whereas other dangerous items and weapons of convenience like kitchen knives and automobiles are not?

3. By general ownership based on purchase requirements vs lack of same for other weapons of convenience and dangerous items like kitchen knives and automobiles?

4. Lock up requirements vs set of kitchen knives sitting on kitchen counter within reach of tots and violent people?

Any other angles?

 

[Control Group]

This makes far too much sense to fly in a US court.

 

[Risasi]

Well my first thoughts...

1. Don't really care. But then again I'm not in Kali. I moved away from there ten years ago, and I don't plan on returning.

2. For me the Bill of Rights is beyond legal action. It surpasses any kind of legal expostulation, and no amount of civil argument will placate tyranny. Even if you win, so what? They will just contend it. So, no even if there were laws in my state similar to those in California I would simply ignore and disobey them. I'll go buy from the black market for no other reason, if I feel my rights are being infringed. They are unlawful laws. I have come to a decision, I don't care anymore. Sometimes you just have to be the "bad guy".

If someone tries to usurp and suppress the Bill of Rights, I believe they are now a tyrant and also guilty of treason, in the classical sense. So you shouldn't be pursuing this in civil court. If you lived up to what Lincoln, Madison, Henry and Jefferson taught, you should be marching on Washington to restore order.

Heck Jefferson said he expected a little rebellion against the "system", and such a thing kept the government in check. He also expected this sort of thing should happen about every twenty years or so.

 

[Henry Bowman]

The more likely sustainable cause of action would be by the manufacturers who have been sued against VPC and Brady Bunch under RICO statutes based on their stated objective of costing the defendants lots of money when they know that the case will be tossed on the merits. One good RICO case could shut those fragile organizations down.

 

[Risasi]

Henry,

Now that makes a lot of sense. If it's not a class action formed by a bunch of private citizens, who already have their rights assured by the 2nd, then there could be quite a bit of fur flying before it's over. Especially once you get businesses throwing money at a problem.

 

[UberPhLuBB]

Now who's going to get the ball rolling?

 

[Standing Wolf]

I have no idea why the nation's firearms manufacturers haven't counter-sued the cities and states that have been trying to bankrupt them with patently absurd law suits. No guts, I guess.

 

[Redneck Revolver]

I'll go buy from the black market for no other reason, if I feel my rights are being infringed.

i thought about things like that until i realized that id simply be supporting badguys withthe money i give them. or at least in the area i live i would be. otherwie id go all for it.

 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

No guts, I guess.

No money, more likely.

The politicians who use their municipalites to sue gun manufacturers have a substantial advantage: they have a (nearly) unlimited source of other peoples' money to throw into their case. The manufacturers have only their own money to use, and precious little of it at that.

The politicians also have public opinion on their side (at least in those areas where the lawsuits take place). Imagine trying to find 12 jurors in San Fancisco who would be willing to side with the firearms industry.

 

[Smoke]

For me the Bill of Rights is beyond legal action. It surpasses any kind of legal expostulation, and no amount of civil argument will placate tyranny. Even if you win, so what? They will just contend it. So, no even if there were laws in my state similar to those in California I would simply ignore and disobey them. I'll go buy from the black market for no other reason, if I feel my rights are being infringed. They are unlawful laws. I have come to a decision, I don't care anymore. Sometimes you just have to be the "bad guy".

Nice speech, I'm sure the guys in Cell Block B will be impressed.

Smoke

 

[Brett Bellmore]

One good RICO case could shut those fragile organizations down.

And like the Hydra, for every head you cut off, two more would spring up it their place. We're not talking membership based organizations here, like the NRA or GOA, with a substantial, real existance, and income stream from dues. The gun control organizations you see publicly are really just fronts, with money piped in from outside. Knock 'em off, and two days later Soros or McKelvey would cut a check to somebody, and new organizations would spring up from nowhere.

Getting at the people behind the fronts, THAT would be difficult.

 

[Parallax]

Has anyone brought up the idea of pro gun class action suits?

The Founding Fathers, with the First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

It seems that one or two successful class action suits would put off anti gun activists. Persuading public vote is one thing, having to pay out propaganda funding to court rulings is another.

 

[ctdonath]

I've wondered it too. Class action suit - or hundreds of individual identical suits - demanding the right to own an M4 (the current USA common militia/soldier weapon).

What's struck me, in bringing it up multiple ways, is how pro-gun folks balk at & discourage the idea. I figure a many-identical-suits approach would force enough differing rulings that SCOTUS would eventually have to take it.

 

[Fletchette]

In the case of Bushmaster, they spent their $1 million from their insurance policy fighting the Brady Bunch. That expense must raise the price of their rifles. I'd say that a class action suit against the Brady Bunch is required to "recover" damages.

We need a good, aggressive lawyer.

 

[Crosshair]

I'd say spend the money on education. In order to cover a lie, you need another lie. To say the truth, you need no lie, as there is nothing to cover.

In other words, engage them in debate whenever possible. Make them justify their position, don't attack them, just have a civil conversation and gradualy poke holes in their arguments. Eventualy they will realise their position is wrong or everyone else will see them as an idiot.

Though there will be times where we will need to cut them off at the knees.

 

[Risasi]

Nice speech, I'm sure the guys in Cell Block B will be impressed.

Smoke

Ahh, an all expense paid vacation away from work where I can sit and watch Sally Jessie all day (and learning to be a good criminal)? And who will be footing the bill for this? YOU!
Heh. Sorry Smoke, still don't care...besides if I were to rebel against unconstitutional laws, you are assuming they would catch me.

The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then.

 

[UberPhLuBB]

I'm certain almost everyone here would agree with you, Risasi, and join you. But the thing is, society hasn't collapsed. The government isn't corrupt (misguided perhaps). The people aren't rebelling against a tyrranical regime.

You're among a small number of people who, with the best intentions at heart, don't respect the law. If you're caught, you will go to jail. You're not a martyr, people won't cry for you because you were jailed for "fighting the man." You'll just go to jail, no glory.

I'm sure there are people in very high risk situations who happen to live in areas where CCW is expressly prohibited. Maybe you're one of them, I don't know. But I do know there are lines I won't cross, and that's one of them. I won't risk time in jail and the permanent loss of all firearms privilages to protect my life.

Also, on a related subject, I can't wrap my head around the while Molon Labe thing. If you actually scream "Come and ge them!" at the police, who want to acquire your firearms, they're going to call SWAT. And no ammount of money invested into any number or type of firearms is going to help you fend off a team of expertly trained men specifically trained to take care of situations like that.

If the government does clamp down on all guns, becomes evil, takes my money, murders to force conformity, etc, I'll be right there alongside you fighting the good fight. But this isn't the time. It will only end badly for you.

I'm sorry I got off topic.

 

[PMDW]

In the case of Bushmaster, they spent their $1 million from their insurance policy fighting the Brady Bunch. That expense must raise the price of their rifles.

That money came from their insurance company.