wilderness gun

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Call me a throwback, but my woods bumming gun is a 4 5/8" Ruger Blackhawk in either .44 Mag or .45 Colt, loaded with a 250-ish grain LSWC loaded to about 950 fps. It'll kill snakes, bears, and other vermin DRT.
 
I purposly had this S&W 65 built for a Woods walking gun. It started life as a 3" heavy barrel round butt and I have had a 4" standard barrel installed and had the cylinder moonclipped.
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I don't do snake loads and the S&W 60 is also a great hiking gun.
 
I made some snakeloads, and they tested quite well, but unless a poisonous snake is where I can't walk around him, I probably won't mess with him.

My woods gun is a 686-3 DC in an Uncle Mike's Realtree on a good belt. 158g hardcast over some Blue Dot will resolve any issues, and I continue to use my snake loads on hand-thrown clays to prove what a crackshot I am. :D
 
I have used handgun shotshells for hunting rodents at close range. Snakes? Oh, please; I just walk around them, or move them out of the way with a stick on the rare occasions they don't flee. I have three SP101 snubbies, and one of them is with me virtually all the time. In the woods in Texas, which will have the same "threat" profile as NC, I like a 4" .357 sixgun. This assumes defense, not hunting, is the goal.
 
I always hear the "I want a gun for bear" comment. And of all the years I have hunted, hiked, and backpacked the Rocky Mountains and the Appalachian Mountains, (going on 42 years now) I have NEVER ran into a bear.
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Having had experience in the same locales as Renegade1apha, with Alaska thrown in, I second his comments. While I've run into both black bears and grizzlies, I give the grizzlies a wide berth (usually with a rifle in my hands because I'm out for other game), and have found the black bears to be quite shy, especially in areas where they are hunted.

Forget the snake loads. They are silly, a total waste of money. A snake can only strike a distance equal to half its body length. The last few copperheads (Virginia) and eastern diamondbacks (Florida) I've encountered were easily avoided and/or flipped off the trail with a stick to keep the next hiker or jogger from stepping on the poor things.

Snakes kill vermin. We need them. All apes, people included (creationism not withstanding) have an instinctive fear of snakes, which ammunition manufacturers capitalize upon. We overcome our instincts all the time, because we are humans (e.g.; parachuting goes against survival instinct).

Wild humans are the threat, not wild critters.
 
Have spent a good bit of my professional life in the field and in primitive wilderness settings, mostly in the Pacific Northwest. Have encountered hundreds of black bears and fair number of cougars. I have never found a large bore handgun necessary in most country, with the exception of SE Alaska, where a rifle is more desirable than any handgun.

My favorite for the woods is the Colt Woodsman Sport, First Issue in .22/4" bbl with 100 rounds. One of the Hi-Standards would substitute. Perfect for SD (a quick and natural pointer, superbly accurate and deadly enough at close range), superb for pot meat such as grouse, affords occasional evening entertainment, and comfortably packs flat against the back in the rear pocket of a cruiser's vest.

In "populated" areas, I might occasionally have a Colt Pocket Automatic or Remington 51 in .380. They pack flat, point naturally and are easy to shoot.

I don't kill snakes.
 
just kill the snake with a big stick, people have been doing it for centuries. keep the real ammo for the real threats.
You'll want a longer than 2" barrel. trust me.



oh, and p.s. SNAKES ARE NOT POISONOUS.

sorry. grammar police.
 
6 1/2 in blackhawk for field carry...

recently I picked up a 6 1/2 inch blackhawk(.357 mag), and I'm thinking of using it for field carry. I don't want to hijack this thread, but I would like to know if snakeshot is a viable option in a single action...
 
Murdock, good point about snakes. I've never been one for killing them. We have a great example of what happens when people take "The only good snake is a dead snake" attitude. Australia had a lot of snakes, most venomous. People killed them in droves. Then a drought, followed by heavy rains killed off many more. The subsequent increase in the rodent population ruined their agricultural industry for years.

Snake loads don't work nearly as well as prodding them away with a long stick.

As for bears, I agree, give them a wide berth if possible and only shoot if absolutely necessary, and make sure you have a big enough gun if you have to shoot.

Black bears usually run away if you shout at them, they are quite the cowards unless they have cubs to protect.

In most woods you are more likely to be accosted by human vermin than any other kind. Fortunately, anything that will stop a grizzly or kodiak will also stop a man.
 
Black bears, as a rule, will usually run away from you in the woods. Many years ago I caught the exception to that rule. A female black bear who ran at me with malice to my body in mind. I always carry a gun in the woods and that day had a 44 magnum Ruger on my belt. I took her down with one shot in the chest at about 20 feet. When my heart stopped fluttering I contacted the local game warden who helped me pack her out.

She was one sick bear. Had rotten teeth, was in terrible shape, and still weighed in at around 200 pounds. So, contrary to the rule, she wanted a piece of me. Glad I had the 44 mag. Still pack a 44 mag as my "woods gun" to this day. If a bear is anywhere on the list of possible encounters then the bigger the gun the better. They might not always run away.
 
I have been using shot loads in my XD45 auto. They function well and hold lots of pellets. I haven't shot any snakes yet but I'm sure it would do the job.
 
SATO ORD - "Black bears usually run away if you shout at them, they are quite the cowards ..."
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I don't think I'd ever call Black bears "cowards," cubs or not! "Shy," perhaps. Or "not social," or something to that effect, but not "cowards."

Usually a Black bear has no interest in being around humans -- unless the human idiots are feeding them -- but if a Black bear decides to tangle with you, you'll never think "coward" again!

L.W.
 
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I live in Utah and frequently hike in remote areas alone. I have run into bear, snakes, wild dogs, coyote, you name it. The most scared I have ever been is when I stumbled into a camouflaged pot growing operation. I was glad I was armed for two-legged snakes instead of the belly-crawling kind.
 
I always hear the "I want a gun for bear" comment. And of all the years I have hunted, hiked, and backpacked the Rocky Mountains and the Appalachian Mountains, (going on 42 years now) I have NEVER ran into a bear. Thats not to say that it will never happen, but the chances are slim. I agree with easyg. I would be more concerned with two-legged vermin than any other animal.
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+1


As far as a snake load, I wouldnt even bother. If a snake is close enough bite you then it will bite you. Otherwise walk around it. No sense in killing one just because you can.
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+1 again....North American snakes are never an aggressor to humans, they only strike to defend themselves and are an integral part of a healthy ecosystem. They eat rats, mice and other vermin, they're on our side.


.......that said, I still enjoy carrying the 686 on my hip. But it's more about fun and practice shooting at stumps than it is about protection.
 
My woods gun is a S&W .38 SPL M10 4" heavy barrel. I carry it stoked with cast 158gr SWC over a +P charge of Unique. Soon I"ll be replacing that load with a load using the Lyman #358429 bullet over a charge of Unique. I hope to visit the range soon to see what my gun likes with the test loads I've got loaded. I know a gentleman who used the Winchester 158gr +P SWCHP to take a doe at 35 yards with his S&W M10. The bullet entered behind the shoulder and exited the far side. The doe ran for about 50yd in a half cresent and fell over. With performance like that and with factory ammo I don't feel undergunned in the least with my M10. When loaded with the aforementioned Lyman bullet I feel the .38 SPL will perform even better.

I hunt in the Adirondack region of NY and have had no problems what so ever with bears. On average our bears are about 150 pounds, however I've come across a few that were quite a bit heavier. The bears that I have come across though left the area as if the woods was on fire. Though black bears are shy by nature I always give them a healthy dose of respect and a wide berth. As I don't feel like meeting the one that didn't get the memo about being shy and they're supposed to run away from humans.;)
 
"Well i live in North Eastern NC where we have snakes, black bears, and all kinds of things you dont want to encounter. I'm thinking the way to go is .357 w/ the 1st 2 rounds snakeshot the rest FMJ. Anyone disagree. I'm thinking about getting a 2" SP101.

Anyone disagree with my choices? Why?"


I would go with .357 158 grain Jacketed Soft Points. They should provide enough penetration and still give some good expansion. The FMJs will probably overpenetrate if you hit a thin area of a bear or any area of a 2 legged attacker. They are also more likely to ricochet at a high enough velocity to inflict injury. I would also forget about loading the first 2 as shotshells. You may need a real bullet faster than you can realign the cylinder. I'd suggest a small frame .38 (or even a .22) snubby as a second gun, loaded only with shotshells.
 
I don't hike recreation wise; if I did I would carry a lightweight J frame (of which I have several) to be CCW on the trail.

I sell ranch land and often have to scout thousands of acres out on my own. When I do so, I carry a .44 Magnum revolver and keep a .44 Magnum Marlin in the vehicle. I have encountered cats, bears, bull elk in the rut and trespassers. No CCW here.

Buffalo Bore hard cast all the way.
 
For self defense in the backcountry. I would recommend a Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan. This gun is designed for self defense against Alaska's biggest animals, both grizzly and moose.

Being a revolver, not only is it more reliable than a semi-auto, but it can be shot at contact range, a semi-auto would most likely only get one shot when the muzzle is pressed against the animal, which is a common distance when going up against a bear.

The Alaskan (like the Super Redhawk) is available in 44, 454 Casull, and 480 calibers. The 480 version has recently changed to a 5 shot version, due to difficulties extracting 6 empty rounds, where the chambers were too close to each other. The barrel is 2.5" and the gun weighs almost a pound less than the S&W500.

The 454 Casull model can also shoot 45 colt ammo at the range, making it more affordable to practice with. Buffalobores 454 Casull ammo is very powerfull - http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#454 and it can be handloaded beyond that. It comes with the Hogue tamer grip, which has a gel pad on the back for extra cushion.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_revie...grRH/index.html
http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-SRHAlaskan454.htm
http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-SRHAlaskan480.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z18b4nTCV3w

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product...oducts_id/53653
 
North American snakes are never an aggressor to humans, they only strike to defend themselves and are an integral part of a healthy ecosystem. They eat rats, mice and other vermin, they're on our side.
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Humans have an irrational fear of snakes based on pure emotion. Leave them alone!
 
I don't hike recreation wise; if I did I would carry a lightweight J frame (of which I have several) to be CCW on the trail.
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This raises a good point. I walk for exercise all the time. Usually my hiking is done in the urban wilderness, but the principle is the same. The more weight you carry the more you feel it. A big heavy pistol is a comfort, but even an extra half pound will wear on you by the end of the day.

As I've said in other threads, there is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all caliber. You have to balance the caliber to the area you are hiking/camping in. In Florida you aren't likely to run across anything that you can't stop with a nice light framed .357, and that reduction in weight over a .44 will pay off in the triple digit temperatures and one hundred percent humidity.

In the Rockies I always carried my Redhawk with the biggest magnum loads I could get, though my Vaquero .45LC probably would have been sufficient for most situations. The two times I actually got fairly close (within two hundred yards) to a grizzly out there I went my way and the bear went his, but I was glad I had the big pistol with me anyways. (Those animals are huge!)

As far as black bears getting aggressive, it happens, occasionally. It is usually because a female with cubs feels that the young are threatened by the proximity of the human. In some cases though, as was stated in another reply, the bear is sick or injured. It's in a bad mood anyway, and two legged game is easy to take down. (We like to think of ourselves as the top of the food chain, but in the wilderness we find out just how far down the chain we are if we don't have a decent weapon.)

So, I personally would have more than one "wilderness gun". Which one I carried would depend on where I am going to be and how much hiking I am actually going to be doing. Also, if I am just hiking and not hunting, I wouldn't even consider anything like a shotgun or rifle; too much extra weight to carry along the trails for any real length of time. Heck, I'd even look into a nice lightweight aluminum or bamboo walking stick over hardwood to save a few ounces.

Just my opinion, YMMV.
 
...North American snakes are never an aggressor to humans, they only strike to defend themselves...
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Not true.
I certainly don't advocate killing snakes in the wild, and I think they can be easily avoided or chased away with the help of a stick, but there is one aggressive snakes in NC....the cottonmouth (AKA water moccasin).
I have seen these snakes display unusally aggressive behavior and are well known to be unafraid of humans.
I've even seen them try to climb in to boats.
 
As far as black bears getting aggressive, it happens, occasionally. It is usually because a female with cubs feels that the young are threatened by the proximity of the human. In some cases though, as was stated in another reply, the bear is sick or injured. It's in a bad mood anyway, and two legged game is easy to take down. (We like to think of ourselves as the top of the food chain, but in the wilderness we find out just how far down the chain we are if we don't have a decent weapon.)
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Black bears that have been fed or have developed a habit of raiding campgrounds for human food, can get very aggressive. I have a few stories about campground bears.

singed - an ex-seasonal employee of North Cascades National Park
 
Black bears that have been fed or have developed a habit of raiding campgrounds for human food, can get very aggressive. I have a few stories about campground bears.
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That is always true, too. When will people learn that we call them wildlife for a reason?

I've lived near the Ocala National forest for a lot of years and seen a lot of black bears. Never been confronted by one that did more than a mock charge. That was a female with cubs, but I gave her and the kids plenty of room to get away and they did.

Still, I keep a pistol handy and I'm only going to let them get so close before I shoot, but I do want to give them every chance to retreat too. Black bears are getting scarce, I'd hate to see them do the way of the dodo.
 
Several years ago I took a camping/exploring trip on my 650 KLR up near the Wenaha-Tucannon Wilderness. I enjoy motorcycle camping as I can navigate poorly maintained Forest Service roads easily and have some fun doing it. It also gets me into places where other people are scarce.

Nonetheless, at the end of the day, I found a fairly nice dispersed camp, that had obviously been used by deer hunters in that there was a rock fire pit and some wood rounds for seats. It was just getting dark and I had just started warming a can of chili for dinner when a very large black bear just walked up to my camp.

I was carrying a Ruger MKII and I got it out and my camera as well. The bear just came up and begin to circle me. This went on for a few minutes when I decided, enough of this and fired a shot behind him to scare him off. It did not scare him a bit, he just looked at me with annoyance. I knew there was no way I was going to shoot the bear with my little .22 pistol, so we played a game for about 10 minutes. He would circle around my camp and I would fire just behind him to spook him away. He finally wandered off a bit and sat down to watch me as it got dark. I had fired 20 rounds or so.

I built up the fire, ate dinner and set up my small tent. The thing about motorcycle camping is that in situations like this, there is not place to retreat to, such as a camper or car. I guess one could go set on the bike or break camp and drive off, but I was tired and determined to stay put.

I got very little sleep that night as I could hear the bear roaming about still circling my camp. That little MKII was little comfort to me, but I kept it nearby. At first light, I broke camp and moved on. The bear was no where in sight.

In thinking about it later, I figured this bear owned that campsite and must have heard my engine noise so he came in thinking of getting some easy human food. I do not think he expected the shooting and it put him off, so he circled and waited. I am certain he would have came in and ripped in to my gear if not for the gun. I do not think he would have harmed me, unless I got between him and his goal, the food.

BTW, these days, I carry a 3" M29 in my tank bag when I go exploring in the deep woods. I sure sleep better that way.
 
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