Will ACLU Support Gun Rights After McDonald?

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Okay, the ACLU is dead wrong about heller, we all know it.

Now, about all the immature posts claiming that the ACLU is the worst thing to ever happen to this country...

Without the ACLU, we could be submitting to strip searches at every traffic stop, loyalty oaths to register to vote, and a fundamentalist christian version of Sharia law.

Too many visitors to this and other gun forums stood idly by when the Bush administration snuffed habeas corpus and started illegally wiretapping american citizens. You don't get to look the other way when your man is in office and then thump your chests pretending to be the sole saviors of the constitution.

The ACLU, notwithstanding its idiotic stance on the 2nd amendment, has championed the rights of all americans since its inception. Respect that.

I can't respect any organization who feels the 2nd Amendment is a collective right. It is the most fundamental important right we have as individuals in a truly free society IMHO. And the ACLU is deadset against that individual right.

So, they have not championed the most fundamental individual right since their inception. As a result, I do not respect them.

I'm a one issue voter and that's just the way it is for me. Call it immature, call it whatever you want.

I call it the freedom to choose the issues that mean the most to me.
 
So, they have not championed the most fundamental individual right since their inception. As a result, I do not respect them.

I'm a one issue voter and that's just the way it is for me. Call it immature, call it whatever you want.

I call it the freedom to choose the issues that mean the most to me.
Hah! I think that if you were tossed in the clink without cause you might find that habeus corpus was more important than the right to own a gun. Your right to control your person is by far the most important right, and who else, exactly, is protecting our habeus corpus and 4th amendment rights? Certainly not the NRA, god bless em, and I'll bet RDak hasn't done too much on that front, either.

Folks here are one-issue focused, and need to see the broader picture. There have been countries where gun ownership was pretty liberalized (at least for some), yet were incredibly oppressive (South Africa and Zimbabwe, and much of Latin America come to mind).

I personally like the police needing a warrant before they toss my house or search my car. I also like it that they have to charge me or let me go within 48 hours. I don't really care if the ACLU was once a communist organization - communism is dead and no longer a threat. Big gov is much more of a threat, and the ACLU is against big government.
 
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well, Roscoe, the High Road is, after all, a gunny forum. I'm not sure we need to see the broader picture here, save for our own broader worldview.

IOW, I am quite content to have this board be one-issue focused. In fact, that is what I consider this board to be--a "one issue" community.

So, tell me why you think the ACLU is against "big government."

Jim H.
 
They consistently oppose attempts by the government to wire tap without warrant, search your car or house without cause, and hold suspects (US citizens) without a criminal charge. They also are on the forefront of freedom of expression.

You may not see it clearly, but all those things are tied to the 2nd amendment. They are part of a package - if the governemnt can tell you who you can sleep with (another ACLU victory), that means thay can look in you house to see with whom you are sleeping. And, while they are at it, check to see if you own firearms. Maybe they don't arrest you for that, maybe they just put it in a database . . .

Some folks do not care how much the government intrudes on their lives - you see this occassionally from true blue law and order types. Now, my brother is a police detective, and I support law and order, but if they can search your house because they suspect that you may have one one marijuana cigarette, once they are in there they can take anything they want as evidence of any crime.

The law is pretty complicated nowadays, so you might be in violation of some minor infraction. And if the policeman is just a little bit bent . . .there is no way of protecting yourself. After all, if you weren't a criminal, you wouldn't have been searched.

You get the idea - if you give too much power to any group, it will ultimately be misused. that is one of the CLEAR lessons of history. By restricting their power, you keep the balance a little bit more to the side of citizens.

There was once a time (not too long ago - within my lifetime) when the government told you who you could not marry, could outlaw contraception, and could hold you indefinitley for 'questioning'. And anything you said after 36 hours under the lights could be used as evidence. And you could be prosecuted for attempting to exercise your rights of free speech (the ACLU got the 1st amendment incorporated, if you were wondering). Furthermore, the post office got to decide what mail you could receive, on grounds of 'indecency', or if it was deemed politically dangerous . At one time the government tried to force people to sign an 'anti-communist affidavit' before they could travel.

The ACLU forced the government's had on all those cases, and many more. The fact that they occasionally (but not the majority of jthe time) defended people who were not in the mainstream (African Americans, communists, gays, racists, the KKK) does not mean that the principles were not sound - the government just felt comfortable pushing around people who were in the minority.

You need to think about how power is distributed, and how the government in general needs to be kept in check. The greatest threat to our country is certainly not terrorists. There are 300 million of us and we have the greatest military in history. No, the greatest threat, as in many countries throughtout history from Rome forward, is excessive power in the hands of the few, in this case the government.

The fact that you can own a revolver is important, but the power of an individual with a firearm is just nothing compared to the power of the state, and it needs to be checked whenever it overreaches. I personally think turning the ACLU to our side would be tantamount to winning the entire debate over private firearms ownership.
 
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