Will these Calibers ever be sold in large stores?

[usmarine0352_2005]

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I have heard a lot of things about 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, .458 SOCOM and .300 AAC Blackout, however, I have never seen these rounds sold in major gun stores such as Cabelas or Gander Mountain.




Will rounds such as the 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, .458 SOCOM or .300 AAC Blackout ever be sold in large major gun stores?





I spoke with a firearms employee at Gander and he said they do not sell 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC and do not plan on doing so in the future.


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[Jenrick]

I've seen all the above except the .300 AAC Blackout for sale retail at either gun stores, or Cabela's. However they are all in there with the rest of the "exotic" ammo, like fireball 12 ga shells.

-Jenrick

 

[68wj]

Academy is carrying Hornady 6.8 ammo, but the one near me has trouble keeping it in stock. Since the big box sporting stores seem to be pretty conservative with their ammo selections, I was shocked to see it at all.

 

[303tom]

What do you mean by large stores, Midway has all of them on the shelf !

 

[BigN]

For now those are fairly "obscure" calibers that a whole lot of people don't own or shoot. I wouldn't expect to see them on the open market anytime soon.

 

[rsilvers]

It comes down to distribution. Remington has distribution in the large stores, so 6.8 and 300 AAC BLACKOUT has the best chance of being in those stores.

 

[Tirod]

I was buying Rem green box 6.8 in 110 OTM at the local Academy before a tornado blew it away. And I've seen a post - with pics - of a Walmart that even had reloading supplies, including components for 6.8SPC.

It's all about whether manangement, ie. the product research and merchandisers see that it will sell more than something else on the shelf, and make more money. We could all make the case that any of these cartridges will do better than something else, but what happens to the corporate guys is the data gets lost in the noise of everyday work agendas. They can't see a tree for the forest.

When you can't find you favorite weird soda pop on the shelf because it's constantly sold out, and then they drop it entirely, you understand. Corporate merchandisers can easily miss a trend and blow it - it's when their competition starts hitting home runs that they pay attention. They are slowly waking up, and some of those old rounds made for the few loyal shooters will move off the shelf. The system goes to the moneymakers, and it's a matter of time.

The numbers rise to the top. Sticking with a cartridge simply because it delivers what you bought into it means long term sales. The guys who jump in and out playing the Cartridge of the Month don't help themselves or us. Their view is too short term.

 

[amprecon]

The Bass Pro in Memphis sells 6.8spc.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

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I mean Cabelas, Fleet Farm and Gander Mountain.





I know Gander said they don't carry those and won't. I might have missed them at Cabelas or Fleet Farm.

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[sansone]

walmart store managers must give the OK for the sports dept managers to order stock that isn't replacing a sold-out item (already been stocked)
This makes it damn near impossible for new ammo types being ordered. Just try and special-order anything at walmart and see the look you get

 

[Mike1234567]

walmart store managers must give the OK for the sports dept managers to order stock that isn't replacing a sold-out item (already been stocked)
This makes it damn near impossible for new ammo types being ordered. Just try and special-order anything at walmart and see the look you get

I've asked the folks at three different Walmart stores here and they all told me no one at their store orders ammo. Corporate makes those decisions and the Sporting Goods Department just gets what they get. I can special order though.

I'm quite certain Walmart will never carry those calibers listed in the OP. In fact, I doubt if any are available from specialty stores in this area.

 

[Kachok]

6.8 SPC will be around for a long time, several LE agancies already use it, and it is being chamberd in compact hunting rifles due to it's minimal recoil, performance in shot barrels and adaquate ballistic performance for deer hunting. The jury is still out on the others.
I kind of doubt the 300 AAC will catch on because it does not match the ballistic performance of the much more avaliable and less expensive 7.62x39.
The SOCOM would be great if they ever legalize sound supressed firearms for hunting, other then that they have little use for the civilian market, besides the 50 Beowulf beats it in every respect, cheaper too.
The Grendal has exceptional downrange performance but it fails to shoot flatter then the old 5.56 within 300 yd, not many AR guys shoot much beyond that so I see it being doomed to be a specialty cartrage. The Army will never pick it up because of it's sharp shoulder, which causes feeding problems. I am a big fan of the 6.5mm bore, but doubt the hunting market will pick it up becaue it cannot handle the 140gr bullets and there are several other much better established 6.5s out there. Good idea but poor execution.

 

[rsilvers]

7.62x39 does not work in AR15s well enough. AR15s are hugely popular. 300 AAC BLACKOUT gives AK ballistics, but in an AR and will be far lower in cost than 6.8.

 

[bpl]

Infrequently if at all.

 

[ugaarguy]

I know Gander said they don't carry those and won't.

If 6.8 SPC keeps gaining in popularity they will sooner or later. I'd say the same for .300 AAC since it appears to be getting adopted pretty quickly. 6.5 Grendel won't go mainstream unless AA loosens their restrictive licensing on making ammo & barrels. Remington & the Freedom Group they belong to backing 6.8 SPC & .300 AAC will likely push them into the mainstream, even if just on the low sales volume end of mainstream.

 

[Kachok]

My problem with the Blackout is it's limited case volume. It simply cannot handle the hunting weight bullets without taking up too much of the case volume. Low SD bullets like the 125gr .30cal tend to suffer from limited penatration, and poor BC minimizing their all around usefullness, especaly in the area of hunting where 150gr .30 cals have long been the minimum. The Blackout CAN shoot 150gr bullets, but are limited to only about 1900fps (hardly above minimum expasion speeds) as opposed to the 7.62x39 which push a 154gr to a respectable 2100fps in factory form and slightly faster in the hands of handloaders. I see the 6.8 SPC as being a much more versitle round since it can launch respectable SD/BC bullets at speeds which are condusive with bullet expansion. Just my .02
If people want to keep the original 5.56 dimensions, but want the improved lethality of a larger caliber, I recomend necking it up to .257-264 caliber rather then .30 which is just too bulky for such small dimensions if you want to retain rifle like performance.
A 6.2X45 could in theory launch a 100gr at about 2500-2650 fps without increasing the case volume or pressure, that would make acceptable deer hunting ballistics to about 270 yards both in therms of speed and energy, and a much flatter trajectory then the 7.62 calibers in the same class.
A 6.5x45 could in theory launch a 120gr bullet to 2400-2500fps without messing with other specs. Using the 120gr BTs that would give you an effective hunting range of just over 300 yds, and make one heck of an impact at close range. Either of these would show dramatic improvements over the ballistics of the 300 Blackout which are pistol like in comparison.

 

[rsilvers]

My problem with the Blackout is it's limited case volume. It simply cannot handle the hunting weight bullets without taking up too much of the case volume. Low SD bullets like the 125gr .30cal tend to suffer from limited penatration, and poor BC minimizing their all around usefullness, especaly in the area of hunting where 150gr .30 cals have long been the minimum.

There are a couple things I want to correct here. While it is true that 110-125 grain bullets have limited penetration in 308 and 30-06, that is not the case when used in 300 AAC BLACKOUT. The lower velocity will turn a varmint bullet into a larger game bullet. Here are the gel tests to prove it:

http://www.300aacblackout.com/resources/300AACBlackout06OCT2010.pdf

Many of the bullets penetrate 18+ inches.

Second, I am not sure what you consider a low BC, but the Remington Match ammo BC is 0.338. That is more than a 69 grain 223.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRw-ypBgrKo

I see the 6.8 SPC as being a much more versitle round since it can launch respectable SD/BC bullets at speeds which are condusive with bullet expansion.

The 300 AAC BLACKOUT hunting bullets coming out as AccuTip were specifically designed for the 300 AAC BLACKOUT velocity to have ideal expansion. And the 110 V-MAX have plenty of expansion. And look at the gel testing - other off the shelf bullets expand just fine also. As a gun and bullet company, we can make bullets that do what we need.

 

[68wj]

The 300 AAC BLACKOUT hunting bullets coming out as AccuTip were specifically designed for the 300 AAC BLACKOUT velocity to have ideal expansion. And the 110 V-MAX have plenty of expansion. And look at the gel testing - other off the shelf bullets expand just fine also. As a gun and bullet company, we can make bullets that do what we need.

Would be an interesting application for Rem's 6.8 loadings too. I like the "concentricity" portion of the marking tag.

Near-perfect concentricity and an overall ballistically superior design make it one of the flattest-shooting bullets in the world. It also expands quickly to dispatch medium and big game with lightning authority.

 

[Kachok]

There are a couple things I want to correct here. While it is true that 110-125 grain bullets have limited penetration in 308 and 30-06, that is not the case when used in 300 AAC BLACKOUT. The lower velocity will turn a varmint bullet into a larger game bullet. Here are the gel tests to prove it:

http://www.300aacblackout.com/resources/300AACBlackout06OCT2010.pdf

Many of the bullets penetrate 18+ inches.

Second, I am not sure what you consider a low BC, but the Remington Match ammo BC is 0.338. That is more than a 69 grain 223.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRw-ypBgrKo



The 300 AAC BLACKOUT hunting bullets coming out as AccuTip were specifically designed for the 300 AAC BLACKOUT velocity to have ideal expansion. And the 110 V-MAX have plenty of expansion. And look at the gel testing - other off the shelf bullets expand just fine also. As a gun and bullet company, we can make bullets that do what we need.

In the world of rifle bullets a .338 BC is poor. Even my varmint bullets have a BC of .458, my deer hunting bullets are a .520 and match bullets run a .612 BC! Most 125gr class 30cal hunting bullets run in the high .200s or very low .300s While still effective at short range they loose energy very quickly, another problem with that is that a bullet designed for ideal expansion at 2215fps (close range) might not do well at all below 1800 fps which with a .338 BC occurs at only 180 yards. A 123gr 6.5mm bullet at the same speed would retain 1800fps to 295 yards. A HUGE difference to say the least.

 

[rsilvers]

You have a 26 inch barrel 308 bolt action rifle and it has longer range. Congratulations. How well does the ammo shoot in a 6 lb AR that after the hunt, you can toss in a 30 round magazine and use it for home defense? There are guys who won't even touch the 308 because they want 7mm magnum even for small deer. This is not for them. My cousin shoots bears with his bow, and you are arguing that a cartridge which has as much energy at 300 yards as a 357 Magnum revolver does at the muzzle is not enough power for you. Just become a better shot.

 

[sansone]

my 762x39 AR15 cycles real well. The right magazine cures any feed issues. H2 buffer also helps on a carbine model. The fixed stock/rifle version is good to go with x39

 

[rsilvers]

The bolts break if you look at them funny.

 

[sansone]

The bolts break if you look at them funny.

I'm only shooting brass cases now and the bolt life is good.

 

[Kachok]

You have a 26 inch barrel 308 bolt action rifle and it has longer range. Congratulations. How well does the ammo shoot in a 6 lb AR that after the hunt, you can toss in a 30 round magazine and use it for home defense? There are guys who won't even touch the 308 because they want 7mm magnum even for small deer. This is not for them. My cousin shoots bears with his bow, and you are arguing that a cartridge which has as much energy at 300 yards as a 357 Magnum revolver does at the muzzle is not enough power for you. Just become a better shot.

Not fighting over the energy numbers, read it again. Proper bullet terminal perfomance happens within a narrow fps range, most rifle bullets usualy do not expand below 1800 fps if you ever read their detailed specs. The 300 BO is effective, just not ballenced IMHO. It maximizes point blank impact at the cost of downrange performance. 6.8SPC is a better ballenced package that is why it will survive. And I am a very good shot as a matter of fact

 

[rsilvers]

I'm only shooting brass cases now and the bolt life is good.

The US Navy determined that typical bolt life for an M4 in 5.56mm is 5000-10000 rounds. The bolt is without a question, the weak link in the AR design. With 7.62x38 - you are enlarging the face of the bolt, making it even weaker. Not only that, but the PSI in the chamber is pressing against a larger surface, so the total force is greater. Thirdly, the extreme taper of the case raises bolt trust. I was getting 200-300 rounds per bolt, but that was FA suppressed. I have no doubt that with a semi auto 16 inch barrel, most people may never notice that their bolt does not last long, but the design parameters are just not there for it to be a real solution. KAC tried it with the SR47.