Buying my first shotgun, I'll use it mostly for skeet. I've read tons of reviews about the reliability of the 870's, but the winchester just looks like a better gun, and it's only slightly more expensive. Any information or opinions on the way to go here would be greatly appreciated.
Win 1300 or Rem 870 express
- Thread starter Baloo
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SSN Vet
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go to Gunbroker.com
for some good deals on 1300's...
BUT !! contact the seller and specifically ask him/her to sight down the barrel and check that the vent rib lines up flat with the receiver.....I had to send one back, which was cockeyed....
You can get NIB for ~$225 and barely used for ~$175
I was not enthused at all about the bead blasted finish on the 870 express...el yucko! IMHO. Not sure if their all bead blasted or not ... but I think they are.....others here will know better.
I'm a shotgun novice...so please no flame wars......but on two occasions I spent an hour going through the racks of use shotguns at KTP (must have 1/4 acre of used guns) and I found that the Winchester 1200s & 1300s (to my inexperienced senses) shouldered and swung more fluidly than the older Wingmasters.......
But OH Man!!!....Nothing could touch the new Wingmasters with the LC barrel.....that shotgun just floats (for $550 and up).
I just bought an older 1300 XTR and so far I'm pleased....pump action is very smooth (I think this gun saw a lot of trap use) and though I had to free up a sticky safty with brake cleaner (gun sat on the shelf dirty for a long time as well)....I'm happy to have it.
FN (which owns the Winchester name) is still making the police version, and is providing warranty and repair service via. some place out west (Utah?, Nevada?). The're lots of parts and Winchokes out there as well....just check ebay, etc...
for some good deals on 1300's...
BUT !! contact the seller and specifically ask him/her to sight down the barrel and check that the vent rib lines up flat with the receiver.....I had to send one back, which was cockeyed....
You can get NIB for ~$225 and barely used for ~$175
I was not enthused at all about the bead blasted finish on the 870 express...el yucko! IMHO. Not sure if their all bead blasted or not ... but I think they are.....others here will know better.
I'm a shotgun novice...so please no flame wars......but on two occasions I spent an hour going through the racks of use shotguns at KTP (must have 1/4 acre of used guns) and I found that the Winchester 1200s & 1300s (to my inexperienced senses) shouldered and swung more fluidly than the older Wingmasters.......
But OH Man!!!....Nothing could touch the new Wingmasters with the LC barrel.....that shotgun just floats (for $550 and up).
I just bought an older 1300 XTR and so far I'm pleased....pump action is very smooth (I think this gun saw a lot of trap use) and though I had to free up a sticky safty with brake cleaner (gun sat on the shelf dirty for a long time as well)....I'm happy to have it.
FN (which owns the Winchester name) is still making the police version, and is providing warranty and repair service via. some place out west (Utah?, Nevada?). The're lots of parts and Winchokes out there as well....just check ebay, etc...
The nice 1300s are no more. They were very pretty guns, though they had aluminum receivers.
I wouldn't get either gun, for skeet, unless it's real cheap. You'll want another gun the first week, for doubles.
A used 1100 would probably serve you better. Just MHO.
I wouldn't get either gun, for skeet, unless it's real cheap. You'll want another gun the first week, for doubles.
A used 1100 would probably serve you better. Just MHO.
MCgunner
Member
In pumps, I'd rather have a BPS. But, I'm primarily a duck hunter. I know they're heavy, don't matter on the pot hole. Probably not the best skeet gun, I reckon, but then I agree with ArmedBear, you'll want an 1100 or maybe a nice O/U for the games. Pumps ain't the ticket for serious gaming.
Steve H
Member
Chevy or Ford? Both are good. Buy what fits you the best.
Eat Beef
Member
I'd buy a USED Wingmaster.
You can find one in great shape for the same price...OR LESS.
And IMO it's a better piece than either.
You can find one in great shape for the same price...OR LESS.
And IMO it's a better piece than either.
MCgunner
Member
Not arguing, just wanna know, what makes a wingmaster any better than an express? I know it's got a little machine engraving and checkered walnut stocks and a nice blue, but is that all the difference? I thought the difference in the two was just cosmetic. Maybe there's something functionally better about the wingmaster?
I had a wingmaster and prefer my mossberg for a couple of personal reasons that have nothing to do with skeet. If I was a rich man, though, I'd have a BPS or an 11-87 for my waterfowling. The mossberg fits my budget better. What I like about it over the Remington 870 is the tang safety (I'm a lefty) and the fact that there's no loading gate in the way of the magazine tube to pinch my cold, numb fingers (trust me, it hurts) on a cold morning or jam the works if you don't get the round all the way in the magazine tube first try. Can't use a glove to put the rounds in either cause that danged loading gate will trap the glove. Oh, you CAN put 'em in with a gloved finger, but you have to constantly did the end of the glove's finger out of the danged loading gate. Irritating. The Mossberg don't have no stinkin' gate in the way, nor does the much higher quality, smoother action (and more expensive) Browning BPS which is my favorite of favorite pump guns and the perfect southpaw shotgun.
I had a wingmaster and prefer my mossberg for a couple of personal reasons that have nothing to do with skeet. If I was a rich man, though, I'd have a BPS or an 11-87 for my waterfowling. The mossberg fits my budget better. What I like about it over the Remington 870 is the tang safety (I'm a lefty) and the fact that there's no loading gate in the way of the magazine tube to pinch my cold, numb fingers (trust me, it hurts) on a cold morning or jam the works if you don't get the round all the way in the magazine tube first try. Can't use a glove to put the rounds in either cause that danged loading gate will trap the glove. Oh, you CAN put 'em in with a gloved finger, but you have to constantly did the end of the glove's finger out of the danged loading gate. Irritating. The Mossberg don't have no stinkin' gate in the way, nor does the much higher quality, smoother action (and more expensive) Browning BPS which is my favorite of favorite pump guns and the perfect southpaw shotgun.
bglimpse
Member
I would also look for a used 870 Wingmaster or Police. They are a little different from the express ie: heavier springs, aluminum trigger guard, polished internals and I know the Police models are assembled in a seperate part of the plant with better QC and attention to detail. But there is nothing wrong with the Express either. I have an Express Super Magnum that I use for duck hunting and a 870 Police for HD. Both are great.
Here is a link that details all the differences in the Express and Police/Wingmaster:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=1&t=177796
Here is a link that details all the differences in the Express and Police/Wingmaster:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=1&t=177796
I had a synthetic Win 1300 which was really smooth out of the box, and shot great, never any problems. But too many shotguns in the safe, so traded it towards a Smith 642. I still have some chokes for the 1300, and would sell cheap if you get the Winchester. The only 870 express I have is my waterfowling Super Magnum in camo, which I just plain love. It swings nice, has a 30in barrel, and patterns very well. But honestly, the controls on the Win1300 were closer to the trigger so easier to access.
Model 1300 for me.
I had 870's for many years, did all kinds of shooting with them. Then I decided to get a rifled shotgun, and bought the Model 1300. At first, the action felt like it had sand in it, very rough. I looked it over and then polished the magazine tube and it is really slick now. I fell in love with the 1300's and now have a one for birds, clays, and turkey. I have since sold all my 870's.
I had 870's for many years, did all kinds of shooting with them. Then I decided to get a rifled shotgun, and bought the Model 1300. At first, the action felt like it had sand in it, very rough. I looked it over and then polished the magazine tube and it is really slick now. I fell in love with the 1300's and now have a one for birds, clays, and turkey. I have since sold all my 870's.
dstorm1911
Member
if ya want reliable go with the Winchester, take a look at the bolt in a 1300 compared to an 870 sometime. I don't shoot skeet..... I build custom combat weapons and I figured out early why the 1300 was the best choice, the 870 is "sexier" but the bolt on the 1300 with its multiple locking lugs ensures reliability and when its gonna end up all flat black anyway sexy don't carry as much weight, I won't even consider a Mossberg for serious use the bolt locking is weak and the feed ellivators are prone to failure which means death if your facing a bad guy, The 870 got into many police departments which led to its popularity unfortunatly it got there by underselling..... big departments went with the better bargain instead of the better gun and Winchester refused to compromise... it cost em.
The guns I build got more riding on em than lost points and its ALWAYS Winchester, now FN.
Now in Autos which would actually better suit your needs ya can't go wrong with a Rem 1100 or better still a Browning A5 basically the same system pretty package though with the Remington, or have ya considered a good over under? There are some really nice bargains in the Bakail shotguns being imported and if your not so worried bout fancy plating and murels ya can get one that'll give the Brownings a run for their money for about the same or less than that pump will cost ya.
The guns I build got more riding on em than lost points and its ALWAYS Winchester, now FN.
Now in Autos which would actually better suit your needs ya can't go wrong with a Rem 1100 or better still a Browning A5 basically the same system pretty package though with the Remington, or have ya considered a good over under? There are some really nice bargains in the Bakail shotguns being imported and if your not so worried bout fancy plating and murels ya can get one that'll give the Brownings a run for their money for about the same or less than that pump will cost ya.
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
Welcome, Baloo. Both of these shotguns are proven performers with lots of happy owners. Get the one that FEELS best.
Kali Endgame
member
I'm picking up my Defender on the 30th. I'll give you an opinion next weekend.
Jon
Jon
I look at the "best" Winchester 1300 for $444 MSRP and compare it with the wingmaster at $699, I have to ask what the difference in performance/esthetics happens to be to result in that price difference. Is the 870 really that much better than the 1300?
bglimpse
Member
Your gonna pay a little more for the nice wood and bluing on the Wingmaster, few can match it. I would compare the Express to the 1300 and take the Express. I haven't found a better handling pump gun than an 870!
SSN Vet
Member
MSRP???
you can get Wingmasters NIB off Gunbroker for $575.
MSRP can't mean much for the Winchester's, as they appear to have gone bye, bye, ever since they shut down the U.S. Repeating Arms plant in CT.
FN owns the rights now, and is apparently only going to manufacture the 1300 Defender model.
I think bglimpse is right....unless your looking at a 1300 that was special ordered with Walnut funiture, they should be compared to the 870 Express, and not the Wingmaster.
you can get Wingmasters NIB off Gunbroker for $575.
MSRP can't mean much for the Winchester's, as they appear to have gone bye, bye, ever since they shut down the U.S. Repeating Arms plant in CT.
FN owns the rights now, and is apparently only going to manufacture the 1300 Defender model.
I think bglimpse is right....unless your looking at a 1300 that was special ordered with Walnut funiture, they should be compared to the 870 Express, and not the Wingmaster.
I would go with the Winnie 1300 Defender, I have one and its a very reliable and sturdy 12 gauge. I wouldnt use 3 inch shells in it though, I read reports and have experienced mag tube connectors coming loose and the truglo strip (On some 1300 Defenders) completely coming off. I only use 2 3/4 shells with reduced or managed recoil. Not to mention one BIG advantage (to me at least) the Winnie 1300 can cycle Aguila Minishells which are a blast to shoot and are inexpensive shells at $8 for a box of 20...the 870 cant cycle them. The Winnie will hold a total of 13 Aguila minishells
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I've got both and like both. The Winchester is smooth and fast but I think I like the 870 better. It's rock solid. I'm always tickled how so many supporters of one firearm or another end up posting their choice on the internet after the line is discontinued. (I include myself there.) If enough people supported some firearms before they were discontinued maybe some good guns would still be around.
sm
member
I would suggest shooting both at skeet and making a choice based on gun fit to you.
~~
For what it is worth Department:
Back in the day Skeet was shot low gun (not pre-mounted). It is still recommended one shoot one platform, in all 4 gauges.
In these early days and folks shooting in all 4 events [ 12, 20, 28 ga and .410]
Two pump Guns were real popular : 870 and 1300
Model 12 in 12, 20, 28 and
Model 42 for .410 were also used
Fred Misseldine Champion Skeet and Trap Shooter shot 1300s .
Winchester should have NEVER stopped making the 1300 in 28 ga and .410.
FN - Listen up FN! Bring back the 1300 in 28 gauge and .410!
I had a very very sentimental 1300 in 28 gauge. I miss that shotgun.
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