Win 94 - .44 mag accuracy problems

Status
Not open for further replies.
M

MechAg94

Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2005
Messages
5,021
I thought I would post this before doing anything drastic. I am sorry if it might take a while for me to get to the point.

I went to the range yesterday and shot my .44 mag levergun some. It is a Winchester 94AE with about a 22" barrel. It has a round barrel and is not a legacy. It was an impulse buy that I have had for a few years and just haven't take the time to shoot beyond verifying it worked.

I pulled it out yesterday at 100 yards since that was where I was already set up. I had some no name ammo that came loose in bags. The first shot was about 6" high so I thought I was doing good. The 2nd shot went down low and to the right. The next several shots ended up low and to the right also. The barrel seems to heat up pretty good after 4 or 5 rounds. I switched to some UMC 180 grain ammo and shot some more. At some point around the ammo change I realized my shots weren't hitting the target anymore. After several shots I found if I aimed off the lower left hand corner of the target, I could hit paper. I then switched to some 240 grain PMC. It did better in that I only had to aim right at the lower left corner to hit in the black. The hits were still not consistent and I swear I was aiming as consistently as I am able. I know this rifle should do better. My problem is that the gun is throwing bullets all over the map and doesn't appear to have any consistency at all. Even with the barrel heated up it shouldn't move around that much. I was shooting a K31 and my new Ishapore Enfield .308 before this and both rifles shot much tighter groups with more consistency.

Anyway, I thought I would ask the experts on THR if anyone has any ideas as to what could be wrong. I have shot my Rossi .357 mag levergun at 100 yards as well and it was much more consistent and accurate. The only thing I can think of is to sell it and buy a Marlin. It is my only gun in .44 mag so I hate to abandon the caliber all together.

Any help/advice would be appreciated.
 
44 mag

I suggest to buy a box of hornady or federal, speer ammo and only shoot one brand at the time. Set up a 25 yds and set the sights (iron or scope to hit dead center). When the barrel becomes hot stop and let it cool. Shooting 3 shot groups between cooling you should see a patteren of accuracy or lack thereof. After setting your sights for that ammo you can move out to futher yardage.You can also compare the different brands of ammo to see which the gun prefers the same way. My 44mag is one of the most accurate and rewarding to load for lever guns.
Good Luck
 
I read an article on this recently, don't remember to much, but bullet weight had to be spot on. it was a huge factor. Also the guy discovered that his also much prefered solid lead bullets or hand rolled , and multiple ring gas checked.
 
I had one, sorry I sold it.

I'd check the crown first. Easy enough to get it fixed if it is.

Check the sight assembly or scope rings and bases to be sure nothing is loose.

Check the barrel for leading, excessive fouling or pitting.

Use one kind of ammo at a time and shoot slow. These were made as hunting rifles. Sorta like a Weatherby. Shoot them a little at a time and they're wonderful. Let them get hot and you're all over the map.
 
I had a .44 Trapper. At 50 yards, mine was very accurate with hard cast, 240 grain LSWC loaded to .44 special power levels. They also didnt lead the barrel at all. Using factory 240 grain JHP .44 Mags, I'd get around 6" groups at 100 yards out of it.

I agree with those who said to start with one lot of ammo from a known maker, and see how it goes at 25 yards first. This will really give you a good idea of whats going on. Dont get to picky or discouraged either, at 25 yards, you can usually shoot nice tight little groups with the right load, but things will still open up quite a bit at 100 yards, even with good ammo. I always considered these rifles to be more of a 50 yard gun and usually zeroed at that range.


I would also definitely check the barrel for leading, especially if you didnt buy it new, or if you were shooing lead that you didnt load or know where it came from. Anything loaded over 850-900 fps with softer lead bullets will foul it up pretty quick. Personally, I no longer use anyone elses reloads for any gun. It makes life a lot simpler and a lot less worry.
 
I would check everything like these guys say to do and I would try several different types of ammo in it.

My .44 Trapper would throw lead all over the place when I used loads it didn't like. When I fed it a compatible load, it grouped fairly well.
I think the solution to your problem is to try various different loads.
 
Been quite a while back...1985 or so I had a Marlin in .44Mag. The only ammo it liked was the Rem 240-Gr jacketed soft-point. Anything else was more like a shotgun pattern beyond 75 Yds. Averaged a bit under 3" with the Rem, but didn't like the Rem SJHP....go figure.

One more "fun" aspect of lever rifles...just like the .22 Rimfire, Ya gotta shoot a bunch of different stuff to find what THAT gun wants.
 
You didn't mention (or I missed it) if you were using iron sights or a scope of some sort... if it's a scope, especially a cheap one, I'd suspect it before I'd suspect the rifle or ammo.

As someone else said, make sure everything is tight, sights, rings, bases, whatever... if it's moving around, it'll make a heck of a difference shot to shot.

You also didn't mention what size the targets were. Are these 8.5x11 sheets? Smaller? Full size torso targets? You say your missing the paper, the size of that paper makes a big difference. Are you 5" from point of aim, or 30"?

Ammo can make a huge difference, get a selection of decent quality 44's in various weights and see what the rifle likes.

I'd lay my suspicions on the rifle as the very last resort, but it could be a bad barrel. If all else looks good, and the rifle is really not capable of putting all shots on a letter size target at 100 yards from a bench rest... I'd get rid of it.
 
Sorry, I didn't get to check back until now.

I was using iron sights. I checked a couple times to make sure they were not loose or moving. I bought the gun new and am under 100 rounds on the count. The barrel and rifling looked fine when I cleaned it. I was using at least semi-jacketed ammo.

I was using standard small caliber rifle targets. 10 to 12" black circle in the middle with ~24" square paper on a cardboard backing. This was not a small target.

The no-name and PMC ammo were jacketed with just a little dot of lead showing in the center of the tip. Not sure what to call that. The UMC was semi-jacketed lead tip.

I guess I can understand a rifle shooting less accurate with different ammo and with the barrel heating up, but I was unprepared for a 3 foot swing in point of impact at 100 yards. If that is the case, the 12 round capacity of the tube magazine seems pretty pointless.

Also, I did check the crown once and didn't notice any problem, but I'll check again. This rifle has been a safe queen wearing a gun sock for a few years and still looks pretty much NIB.
 
I guess I'll plan on getting a couple boxes of some better ammo of at least 2 different types, then restart the process at 25 to 50 yards. I'll even try to be patient and let the barrel cool down. I am still a little doubtful. I have shot plenty of cheap ammo in other rifles and not experienced anywhere near this drop off.

I guess I'll have to bring my .22 rifle and set up 2 targets. I don't think I have ever actually shot groups with my Marlin 39A.

If I can, I'll pull out my camera this evening.

Thank you for all the replies and help. :)
 
Here's the deal:

1. Clean your barrel! Sounds like copper fouling when you said it was heat'n up after just a few shots. (use something like Blue Magic or the like and make sure you read the directions with anything with ammonia, along with a bronze brush)

2. Let it cool after three shots.

3. I am a handloader, so very proud of my recipe's, but buy (God forgive me) Remington R44GM2's 240gr JSP's. Trust me on this, JHP's will not be as consistant. If this is the '94 Winchester I am thing of, you should be at a little under 1900 fps, where as the JHP's out of mine were around 1800fps and bounced around by 50 fps.

4. Start at 50 yards, top of bead on the BOTTOM of the bulls eye and the bottom of the bead on TOP of the crotch of the V on the rear sight.
Adjust rear sight until you are hitting the top of the bulls eye, then go to the 100 and you should put 'em right in there. Provided you do not have to adjust for windage or have holding and breathing problems along with jerk'n the trigger.

5. Copper fouling!
 
Absolutely! Especially when you start using unkown cartridges. Most often the build up takes time, and 99.9% of the time people will not nip it off at the beginning because they think their barrel is clean.

Hoppe's 9 will not clean it, try some Foam Bright and let it sit in the barrel for 1/2 hour, if the patch comes out with any green or blue tint you have copper build up.
 
Okay. I believe I have some stuff that will work. I'll try it out. Thanks.

FYI, I did look at the crown yesterday. Looks good to me. I tried to take pictures, but I don't think they came out very well.
 
Have you tried the new Hoppe's Elite? It's really great stuff for cleaning copper out fast with little effort. I was really impressed with it. I don't use anything else now.
 
I bought it off the rack at a small gun shop. Late 90's would be my guess. I'll have to look for some heavier bullets to try next time out.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Gun Geezer
  • Locked
ANOTHER 94 Trapper Issue: 44 Mag
Replies
19
Views
1K
Rifle Country
OilyPablo
OilyPablo
glockky
  • Locked
WOLF 44 mag ammo
Replies
5
Views
1K
Rifle Country
beeenbag
beeenbag
D.B. Cooper
  • Locked
Win 94 (44 Mag) Shoots Extremely Low
Replies
23
Views
2K
Rifle Country
D.B. Cooper
D.B. Cooper
6
  • Locked
Sighting a new Arsenal AK
Replies
11
Views
2K
Rifle Country
Prince Yamato
P
JohnKSa
  • Locked
Shots Strung Diagonally
Replies
4
Views
724
Rifle Country
JohnKSa
JohnKSa
Top Bottom
Back