Winchester 9mm 147gr Black Talon in Clear Ballistics gel.

[5pins]

I was able to lay my hands on a small number of the controversial Winchester 9mm Black Talons. Demonized by politicians and gun control groups when it came out in the early 90’s. Designed to pass the FBI standard how does it stand up today to the latest offerings in the world of defense ammo.

Six rounds into two 16 inch blocks of Clear Ballistics gel at 10 feet. Test gun used is a Sig P229 with a 4.9-inch barrel and a S&W shield with a 3.1-inch barrel. Two rounds into the bare gel and two into gel covered with heavy clothing from the Sig. Finally, two rounds fired from the Shield into the bare gel.

The first round fired info the bare gel had a velocity of 983fps penetrated to 16 inches and expanded to .55 inches. Round two also penetrated 16 inches with a velocity of 986fps and expanded to .61 inches.



I didn’t get any velocity reading for either of the rounds fired through the heavy clothing. The first hit the table top about halfway through the first so I didn’t measure the penetration but it still expanded to .54 inches. Round two penetrated to 15.5 inches expanded to .52 inches.



The first round out of Shield into bare gel had a velocity of 939fps penetrated to 19 inches and expanded to .58 inches. Round two expanded to .52 inches, penetrated to 19.5 inches and had a velocity of 920fps.

 

[Chompiras]

As much as people today say that they were just another HP that was unnecessarily hyped up by the media, it seems to me at least that they were and are very respectable performers even by today's standards. Plus, they just look cool after expansion with those sharp 'talons'. Thanks for the test.

 

[kBob]

When they came out they were my carry ammo in my CZ75 and HK P7. Unfortunately they were expensive enough that I did not stock pile them. I likely have a box or two of 9x19mm and or .45ACP in the ammo "collector box" a locked steel sea chest next to one of the safes.

If you read my post about bullets moving things aside and Dr. Fackler, you might be interested to know that he said to me that he thought those teeth, claws, or fangs (different writers described them thus) had the potential to cut things up in passing. As someone with a lot more experience with gun and shell fragment wounds than the hardest pressed inner city ER doc, he thought the danger to Docs from those same edges was greatly exaggerated.

-kBob

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I've heard many folks lament the loss of Black Talons on the market, and based on this limited test, I can see why. On the up side though, I think we now have plenty of replacement offerings that demonstrate equal if not better performance.

 

[Riomouse911]

Ranger SXT is pretty much a repackaged Black Talon.

The insider scoop from Winchester SXT ammo users like our County Sheriff and our office is SXT= Same eXact Thing.

Same technology, same expansion characteristics, same effectiveness. Try the 147 gr SXT next, and compare the results, they should mirror each other.

Not the same ridiculous media hyperbole, however.

 

[warnerwh]

I have some SXT's I got when I traded guns with a cop. The bullets I believe are 127 grain so that size bullet is also available. Also they are +P+ rated. As stated above I am pretty sure these are the same as the Black Talons but are copper colored so I think maybe they aren't so deadly lol.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I have some SXT's I got when I traded guns with a cop. The bullets I believe are 127 grain so that size bullet is also available. Also they are +P+ rated. As stated above I am pretty sure these are the same as the Black Talons but are copper colored so I think maybe they aren't so deadly lol.

Well that's good.

Black colored hollow points could only have been forged in the fires of Mount Doom by the dark lord, Sauron, himself.

I seriously worry about some of Barnes black colored bullets................

 

[Deus Machina]

Black colored hollow points could only have been forged in the fires of Mount Doom by the dark lord, Sauron, himself.

Now that's not true and we all know it, no matter what the banners want to say about it.
The Black Talons just have a coating on them. It's probably only the ashes of burned witches.

It's been confirmed, though, that SXT is the same thing. I've also heard that it's been redesigned just a little, but that may be the PDX.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Now that's not true and we all know it, no matter what the banners want to say about it.
The Black Talons just have a coating on them. It's probably only the ashes of burned witches.

Thank goodness!

 

[FN in MT]

We were carrying the sub sonic 147's in our 5903 Smiths back then ,when all the hysteria started on the EVIL black talons.
We had a few shooting with them and they performed very well. And many of the Troopers commented that they seemed to work well on road injured deer as well. We shot a ton of those.

They were replaced by the WW SXT Rangers and we saw no difference in performance. I still laugh when I see boxes of the Black Talons on gun show tables for ridiculous prices.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

Current Win 147 gr PDX Bonded gel test for comparison:

 

[Stubert]

I carry a.45 Colt Defender, stoked with 230 grain Win. Ranger T ammo. (Black talons in disguise) Tough to find sometimes because Winchester markets them for Law enforcement sales only.