Winchester Fail-Safe bullets?

[Desk Jockey]

Last year was my third season elk hunting, and the first year that I was successful. But something about that day last fall has been bugging me. I'd like to figure it out before I go out again in October. Bear with me here....

I have a 300 WSM for elk. For ammo, I've been carrying Winchester Supreme 180 grain Fail Safe. Last fall, I got very lucky on opening morning when 7 cows and a bull appeared in the trees 55 yards away from where I was sitting (I paced it off later). After they looked at me for a few seconds, they turned broadside and ran down the hill. As soon as the cows got out of the way, I had an easy (but split-second!) shot between trees at the broadside bull who was just beginning to run. The bullet entered his right side, just behind the shoulder and near the center (top to bottom) of the chest. He ran downhill about 30 yards and dropped.

There was a small entrance wound on the right side, where the bullet passed through a rib. The heart and liver were in good condition, but the lungs were just a mass of jelly and the chest cavity was full of blood. But there was no exit wound on the left side. I wasn't exactly performing an autopsy or searching for the bullet, but I never did come across the bullet or any fragments. And there was NO exit wound. We skinned him out back in camp and still found no exit.

According to the ballistics charts, the bullet was moving about 2800 fps and carrying 3000 ft-lbs of energy when it connected on a medium-sized bull. Did it just break up in the chest cavity? I'm thinking that if the bullet expended ALL of it's energy on the target without exiting, that's a good thing. But I'm not sure about that, and I expected to find an exit.

So the questions are:
1. Why didn't the bullet exit?
2. Is this a concern?
3. Why am I not handloading? (That ammo is EXPENSIVE!)

 

[JesseL]

I would say that:

1. The bullet probably blew up at some point and couldn't penetrate any further
2. If it worked well, I wouldn't worry about it. A bullet that holds together and penetrates more is more desireable but you can't argue with sucess.
3. Handloading is very rewarding, but it may or may not be worthwhile for you. The intial cost is not insignificant and premium components aren't cheap either.

I'm curious why the "energy dump" myth keeps coming up. Bullets kill by destroying tissue and causing blood loss - not by transferring energy to the target. How effectively they do that depends on penetration and cross sectional area. The energy put into a target is, by its self, minimally damaging. If a bullet with 3000 ft lbs of energy stops in its target, most of that energy is transformed into heat - but 3000 ft lbs only translates into 3.85 BTUs of heat - barely enough to warm your coffee.

An arrow with 50 ft lbs of energy is far more lethal than a 22lr with 120 ft lbs, because it has a shape that destroys tissue more efficiently and the momentum and sectional density to give it deep penetration.

 

[Shoney]

I have taken lots of elk with the following cartridges: 6mmRem 100gr Nosler Partition; 30-06 165 Nosler Partition, 180 Nosler Partition, 180 Rem Core-Lokt; 300Wi Mag 180 Nosler Partition, 200 Nosler Partition. On all the chest shots with varying degrees of quartering, I found the bullet lodged against the skin on the opposite side: always for the 6mmRem, always for the 30-06 165, majority of the time with 30-06 180 Partition and 180 Core-Lokt .

Pass thru for 300WM 180 about 50/50, 95% pass thru for 300WM 200 partition.

Elk are tough, lots of mass. The fact that you were close suggests the bullet began extreme expansion upon hitting the rib, opening fully and then destroying the lungs with out enough energy to pass thru.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Thanks for the input, gentlemen. Sounds like it's not too big a deal.

Shoney, I hope I can someday make a similar statement to yours:

I have taken lots of elk

Jesse, as far as 'energy dump', I just figured that if the bullet had X amount when it hit and has zero when it stops, then all that energy went somewhere. Regardless of the physics (which is probably over my head anyway), the bullet did put the elk down and that's the important thing.

Interesting example with the broadhead and the 22LR. I hadn't thought about that before.

 

[Creeping Incrementalism]

I just figured that if the bullet had X amount when it hit and has zero when it stops, then all that energy went somewhere.

I've spent a lot of time looking at Fackler's gelatin diagrams, and with FMJs that stay in one piece, the energy basically goes towards "jiggling" the tissue struck, but not damaging it. But if the FMJ breaks up, or when soft/hollow points fragment, the bits of metal slice through tissue, and the "jiggle" ends up destroying the weakend tissue. The greater the fragmentation (the lower the weight of the bullet when finished), the greater percentage of "jiggled" tissue that ends up destrouyed. For bullets that expand but don't fragment, such as Barnes copper bullets, or most handgun bullets, the tissue is "jiggled" but without damage.

I know this doesn't sound scientific, but I broke out a ruler and used Excel to due some calculations, and found that energy and fragmentation % could be used to estimate the volume of tissue damaged.

Desk Jockey, I don't know what Fail-Safe is, but I'm guessing they are premium bonded bullets designed to stay in one piece no matter what, in order to get the needed penetration? If that's so, I'd say the bullet failed, and the premium you spent on this ammo over a cheap softpoint was wasted--a cheaper bullet would probably have done the same thing, in this case. Though on average, I'm sure the Fail-Safe is better.

 

[Desk Jockey]

CI, here's how Winchester advertises the Fail-Safe bullet:

Supreme® Fail Safe®: Solid, copper-alloy nose with notched hollow point cavity, combined with a lead core protected by a steel insert, delivers deep penetration and uniform, controlled expansion with virtual 100% bullet weight retention.

Description: Delayed, controlled expansion. Deep penetration through thick, tough skin, heavy muscle tissue and bone.

It is certainly possible that the bullet was in one piece, and I just never saw it as I was field dressing the elk. I wasn't exactly searching for it. So I can't say for certain that the bullet went to pieces. But there's no doubt that it didn't penetrate the other side.

Shoney's theory sounds plausible - bullet hits rib at 2800 fps, expands fully, and stops in the chest cavity.

 

[Shoney]

My wife once knocked down a cow elk with the 30-06 180 Core-Lokt at about 200 yrds. When she got up to it, it put it's head up and from 10 feet she put another round 6 inches below the intersection of the spine/skull. The bullet never exited, it literally exploded upon impact with hide. There was a lead and copper fragment trail which coned out from the entry hole, and it was about 8 inches across with lead and copper and bone framents against the hide. Without a doubt it was the worst damage I have seen in all the animals I have cut up.

 

[Creeping Incrementalism]

So it sounds like some of these premium hunting bullets aren't holding together as they are marketed?

 

[Smokey Joe]

Win Fail Safe

Desk jockey--The Win Fail Safe is one of the most hang-together and deep-penetration bullets that there is. I have 3 recent handloading-mag articles re premium hunting bullets. I'll quote Rick Jamison from Handloader Aug. '05: "Winchester Fail Safe One of the most complex bullets on the market, the Fail Safe, available in Winchester factory ammunition, has a solid nose section sans a lead core up front but with a lead core in the rear of the bullet. This core is surrounded by two steel inserts nested together in the .30 caliber, 180-grain configuration. It is all capped at the base. This bullet penetrates deeply with a controlled smaller frontal diameter and near 100 percent weight retention at normal impact velocity."

Accompanying photos of the Fail Safe show relatively small expansion after firing (presumably into wet 'phone books or some such). The other 2 articles (Handloader June/July '06, and Shooting Illustrated July '06 say pretty much the same thing.

What I'm saying here, is, that you chose a bullet well designed for the job to which you put it. The experts agree on this. It did the job just fine--no one can argue with success.

As to your 3 questions: 1. You don't care. 2. No. 3. No reason in the world. If you were, you could be loading Barnes Triple Shock X Bullets, which won't perform any better than your Fail Safes, but which WILL perform just about exactly the same. For less $$, and you tuned the load to exactly what your particular rifle likes best.

Enjoy the elk steaks.

 

[Avizpls]

There must have been a second shooter. BACK...and to the right.

 

[knoxx45]

My theory

If you were not specifically looking for it you may have over looked it. Bullets do funny things once they enter an animal. The like to spin around and travel base forward, and often it only takes a slight disturbance to do so. The fact that it hit a rib first, makes me think that it probably started tumbling and bounced around a bit. That bullet is one of the strongest designs on the market, and if it had just exploded on impact, you still would have found fragments, especially the steel inserts.
My brother and I were on a black bear hunt in up-state NY. We both used the Fail Safes. I has my 30-06, he was using his 7mm Rem. He had an amazing one shot stop from about 75 yards. The bear reared up and almost fell over on the spot. On closer inspection, the bullet entered broad side, went through the vitals, hit the inside of the left shoulder, then ping-ponged around and was found INSIDE the intestines. We were dumb founded when we could not find an exit wound or the bullet, but our guide fished around, and came up with it. It was a bit banged up from hitting the shoulder, but still was not fragmented.