Winchester Model 70- The Good, the Bad & the Ugly

[igotta40]

I've decided the 'accumulation' in my safes isn't complete without a Model 70, the ubiquitous hunting rifle. My challenge is searching and finding a nice example of a pre-64 at a reasonable price vs. getting a brand new one. My knowledge is limited to what I've read, so here I am, asking for advice from experienced owners.

My gut tells me to look for a pre-64. However, can anyone tell me what the level of quality is like on the new productions? Caliber 30-06.

I don't want a safe queen, rather, a range toy, and taken on a deer hunt if I get the chance.

BTW, I use the term 'accumulation' cuz a collection implies a theme : )

 

[RPRNY]

The current Portuguese manufacture US assembly guns seem to get reasonably positive reviews for QC, though there have been some unsatisfactory reports. So, I think you would want to examine and handle the one you were to buy. I would go with The Alaskan with walnut and iron sights as the consumate M70.

 

[cdb1]

I'd rather have the current iteration and like RPRNY I'd get an Alaskan.

 

[Wisco]

I have had a few M70s. The only one I now have is a pre-64 I recently acquired. It's everything I've ever wanted in an old school iron sighted deer rifle.

If you're buying a pre-64, find out value for condition and don't overpay. A shooter 30-06 should <$1000. A mint one much more. Other calibers vary widely - up to several thousand dollars for some. If you want to talk about blue book values, shoot me a message and I'll see if I can help. Just know that a gun in 70-80% condition is a $500-600 rifle - it's not the gold mine some of the people selling them think it is.

I bought a new M70 Alaskan last year that I was told was made in South Carolina. It wasn't. It was made in Portugal with US parts. If it's important to you to buy American, the new ones aren't for you. BUT they are nice rifles. Accurate, great to excellent fit and finish - I have no doubt the rifle would've lasted a lifetime.

I used to have a less nice pre64 that wasn't even close to the new ones in any way. It all depends...but I think I'd stay away from anything made from 1964 to 1980. The more recent FN guns made in SC are nice, as are the Portugal made guns.

 

[Bushpilot]

The Alaskan with walnut and iron sights as the consumate M70.

That is one of my favorites.. I passed on a pre 64 Alaskan in 375 H&H two decades ago for $600 and I'm STILL kicking myself... It had an issue with the stock that was repairable but the blueing was perfect. Now I would gladly pay that for it with no stock at all.

I like both pre 64 and new production. However, if I was only planning on owning one Model 70 I would prefer a pre 64.

 

[cdb1]

I'm probably in the minority but I prefer the new production M70's over the pre-64.

 

[Bushpilot]

I'm probably in the minority but I prefer the new production M70's over the pre-64.

They are good guns.. My favorite thing about the new model 70s is that if I choose I can have a controlled feed Super Grade, Safari, Alaskan or a Feather Weight and all in perfect condition too, just with the swipe of a credit card. I'm glad that they are back...

 

[Offfhand]

Pre-'64s can be an addiction. Ask me how I know.

 

[Stubert]

I recently got a new 70 Alaskan in .375 H&H. I can't say enough good about it. Nice rifle, nice checkering, good wood to metal fit, and a nice thick recoil pad. I installed a Leupold VX3 2.5 - 8 in detatchable mounts.

 

[joed]

I'd take a new production over a pre 64, the Featherweight I have was made here and quality is exceptional. I'm not happy about the newer ones being assembled in Portugal but I wouldn't turn one down. From the research I did the pre 64's aren't without their problems and the coned breech is a weak point. Heck, I'm fine with production from 64 to 2005, I have examples from these years and have never had a bad one.

It just depends what you want and can afford. And please post pics of what you get.

 

[igotta40]

Thanks for all the advice, that helps. I like the Alaskan too,but it appears to be available only in .375 so that's a no. Same with the Safari Express. The super grade looks excellent but no iron sights, not that I would use them.

Cabela's has quite an assortment at their libraries, and for $25 I can have one shipped to my local store to examine. I saw a very early one that interests me.

It's either that or a new Featherweight on the short list.

 

[Llama Bob]

I have two Portugal-made M70s - a Featherweight and a Supergrade. I would buy another in a heartbeat. I prefer them to the US-made Kimber and Montana Rifle Company pssudo-Mausers I have. Both also outperform the pre-64s I've shot. The pre-64s have a very nice action, but in general you're lucky if they'll hold 2 MOA.

The Alaskan is available in .30-06 BTW, not just .375 H&H. Check Gunbroker.

 

[igotta40]

Thanks LB

 

[Offfhand]

The pre-64s have a very nice action, but in general you're luckuy if they'll hold 2 MOA.

That's an interesting opinion. But we has to ask: how many '64s have you actually tested for accuracy, what were their calibers? And do you consider yourself capable of valid evaluations?

 

[Llama Bob]

That's an interesting opinion. But we has to ask: how many '64s have you actually tested for accuracy, what were their calibers? And do you consider yourself capable of valid evaluations?

I've had a chance to shoot maybe 10-15 over the years. And I'm most certainly capable. The barrels just aren't that good, which could be said of most rifles of the era - it's not really a problem specific to M70s.

The modern FN M70s will shoot almost all hunting loads well.

 

[Nature Boy]

Do I get to count my FN SPR as a Winchester M70?

 

[Wisco]

The pre-64s have a very nice action, but in general you're lucky if they'll hold 2 MOA.

Count me lucky.

 

[Bushpilot]

The pre-64s have a very nice action, but in general you're lucky if they'll hold 2 MOA.

I've had a chance to shoot maybe 10-15 over the years. And I'm most certainly capable. The barrels just aren't that good, which could be said of most rifles of the era - it's not really a problem specific to M70s.

While I would agree that the average new bolt action rifle (along with bullets, scopes and components) made today is a little more accurate on average than those made 53+ years ago, (why wouldn't they be) although I never actually shot those old rifles when they were brand new and no one under 70 has. Still, I think 2 MOA is exaggerated with modern optics and bullet components. I have numerous 60 and 70 plus year old Winchester mod 70's, Remington 721's/722's and old sporterized and scoped Springfield 03's that have no problem whatsoever staying in the 1.5 MOA Range, several in the 1 MOA range. Actually, I have Remington 721 and 722s with stock sporter barrels that give up little or nothing to today's average sporter weight bolt rifle caliber for caliber. BTW that is for 5 shots groups not 3. It's my understanding that it wasn't uncommon way back in the day for a good shooter with a stock 03 Springfield to shoot 1.5 to 2.0 MOA with iron sights.

 

[joed]

Bushpilot, I can believe 2 MOA from the older guns. For rifles I have nothing but Remington 700 and Winchester model 70's in my safe. I've owned some from 1978 to present day. One of the first things I do with the older rifles with wooden stocks is to have them bedded. None of them have produced small groups in stock form. The newer rifles do shoot better. I attribute that to the fact that the manufacturers know more about accuracy now days. And throw in that ammo and components are better today.

I've only shot one pre 64 model 70 and accuracy wasn't anything to brag about. But I'd bet with careful bedding it could be.

 

[Skylerbone]

If it's a range toy, who cares. Buy the cheapest one you can find and shoot it. Spend the money on optics and a stock that suits your shooting positions. My mid-'80s blind mag composite stock sporter was $219 used at Gander and did 1/2 MOA its first trip out.

I bought a walnut stock and now I've got $450 into it with scope and rings. Re-scoping with a Minox this fall and at some point I may look at bottom metal. Small investment with plenty of budget for what might be needed.