Winchester Model 94 questions

[Mastrogiacomo]

I was just browsing through the Winchester catalog. I've never heard of a long gun in a ".357 mag." Is this the same caliber as the 686 handgun? Anyone own the Model 94 and can tell me something about the recoil -- pleasant or no?

 

[41mag]

357 mag." Is this the same caliber as the 686 handgun?

Yep.At one time or another pretty much all of the straight walled,rimmed "handgun"cartridges have also found a home in the various lever guns.

As for recoil from a Model 94?Mine's a .30-30 carbine.Recoil is quick,sharp,& comparatively light.[compared to a .458 or .416]
Hard to say otherwise.

 

[SASS#23149]

Coompared to a 'real' hunting rifle,they're a pussycat.Mine is used for Cowboy Action Shooting(cas)with downloaded lead ammo,and is no worse than a .22 magnum.very managable,and in a lever carbine a whole lot of fun!!

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

I'd like to pick up this gun and the 9422 for plinking at the range. Good cheap fun I hope... Now I've got to find a good .223 rifle for someone my size: 5'2" and 117 lbs.

 

[mustanger98]

Okay, here I am again.

.357magnum in a Winchester '94 carbine won't be anything to worry about. I have experience with it and have shot CAS type loads and hotter hunting loads (158gr LFPs and HP-XTPs respectively) and haven't noticed a difference in the almost non-existent recoil. (I'm 6' and 200lbs, BTW.) I'd say this will be on a par with the .223 bolt gun for recoil, but it'll be a lot less noisy from my experience- I never shoot .223 without ear plugs, but I can shoot a .357mag rifle without them although I don't make it a habit.

I've noticed Winchester markets two versions of the '94 in .357- one's the normal one about everybody can afford, then the other one is the CAS/SASS version for a couple of hundred dollars higher which is looser to cycle for faster competition speeds. I'd recommend the first over the latter because, IMO, it should take longer to wear out.

For a .223 rifle for someone your size, I'm trying to think who makes a ladies/youth version. I did just remember that last I checked Winchester made their M70 Classic Compact in .223- it's short and light. Comes drilled and tapped for scope bases.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

The M70 Classic compact of Winchester doesn't appear to come in .223 caliber. I've been debating whether to go with a 20" Remington model seven, or with a Ruger M77 compact II which also comes in .223 but in a 16 1/2" barrel.

 

[mustanger98]

I just looked back and the Classic Compact don't come in .223 now. I don't see why the discontiued it, but I didn't look at the other variations of M70.

I've looked at Remington's M7 and it seems pretty nice- my dealer here gets them with synthetic cammo stocks and sights. Tell you what I'd do- I'd take a M7 and mount a Lyman #57. Oh, and my dealer's wife- she's on the petite side too- told me she shoots a M7 in .260 and likes it- that's the one she deer hunts with.

In my opinion, the Ruger 77 compact ll is too small. I know you said you're 5'2" and 117, but I'm also thinking of that short barrel putting the muzzle blast back closer to you and .223 has a mean muzzle blast to begin with. The shorter the barrel, the louder/harder that blast will seem. 4-6" more barrel makes a big difference. As for the stock, you can restock (or shorten the existing stock) with a shorter length of pull and make it just about right for you.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

Jesus, that's a good point about the muzzle blast... I didn't think about that but that would be a consideration. I should probably stay with a 20" barrel. It should be comfortable at 20" and yet protect me from too much recoil.

 

[mustanger98]

good point about the muzzle blast...  I didn't think about that but that would be a consideration. I should probably stay with a 20" barrel. It should be comfortable at 20" and yet protect me from too much recoil.

Okay, this gets into a bit of physics, but if you look at Newton's 3rd law, he said "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction". So, every gun has some recoil and how much will be evident depends on the weight of the gun and the power of the cartridge. In the .223- I guess it's a 6.5-7lb. rifle we're discussing- it won't be much unless you get into higher powered loadings. If you shoot M193 ball (Sellier & Bellot loads this in there light blue boxed offering) it won't be nearly enough fealt recoil to make a difference. (Stock fit also has something to do with fealt recoil- too short or long a length of pull will make one kick harder too.) But, when most folks percieve recoil, it's actually that they're just recoiling themselves from reacting to the muzzle blast and I know I used to before I knew what was going on. Muzzle blast can get rough on a beginner after four or five rounds without hearing protection. I also recommend you always wear your hearing protection with the .223 as hearing loss is a bigger issue.

 

[Bob41081]

Some alternative to look at. In .357 Marlin makes the 1894C with 18.25" bbl. I have fired 125 gr HP in it and it feels like a .22. For a .223 you might look at the CZ 527. It has an18" bbl.

Bob

 

[mustanger98]

For a .223 you might look at the CZ 527. It has an18" bbl.

I looked at a CZ (forget the model# now) and it didn't have the feel Rem, Win, and Ruger have. Something, too, about how the steel sounded when I cycled the bolt.

http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/M7_LS.htm

With its new, nicely balanced 20-inch barrel, laminated stock, and overall weight of under 6 1/2 lbs., the Model Sevenâ„¢ LS is the little rifle that does a big job. Fast-handling and easy-carrying in dense cover, it still has the accuracy and power for long-range shots, and has been described as "the world's best whitetail deer rifle."

Attractive brown laminated stock with satin finish
Satin finished carbon steel barrel and action
4 round magazine (5 for .223), hinged floor plate
Furnished with iron sights and sling swivel studs
Drilled & tapped for scope mounts

Caliber- 223 Rem.
Barrel Length- 20"
Rate of Twist- 12"
Overall Length- 39 1/4"
Avg. Wt. (lbs.)- 6 1/2
Order No.- 24728
MSRP*- $701

LOP: 13 3/16"; Drop at Comb: 5/16"; Drop at Heel: 9/16"
*NOTE: U.S. Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. Actual price may vary.

 

[mustanger98]

Oh, on those 1894 Marlins, I like those, but I'd recommend getting on older one. 1- the older ones feel better all the way around, and 2- you don't have that stupid lawyer-mandated crossbolt safety getting in the way. (The older ones just have a half-cock notch and that works just fine. If you're not shooting it or keeping it loaded for home defense, just unload it.)

 

[NoBite]

Oh, on those 1894 Marlins, I like those, but I'd recommend getting on older one. 1- the older ones feel better all the way around, and 2- you don't have that stupid lawyer-mandated crossbolt safety getting in the way. (The older ones just have a half-cock notch and that works just fine. If you're not shooting it or keeping it loaded for home defense, just unload it.)

Any tips on where to find an older one? I'm interested, but have not seen any older ones available around here.

 

[mustanger98]

Any tips on where to find an older one? I'm interested, but have not seen any older ones available around here.

Sorry, no tips on that. The older Marlin '94 I found was a trade-in at the local gun shop. Just keep your eyes open. They're out there. Some may need a new extractor, but they're still better in my opinion, and they'll still be less expensive.

 

[NoBite]

Mustanger98 - Do you know when the crossbolt safety came into being? I'm wondering how old a rifle would have to be to be what you're talking about. You've really got me interested in putting out some feelers and see if I can find one! Of course, then I'd have to give serious consideration to reloading.

 

[mustanger98]

when the crossbolt safety came into being? I'm wondering how old a rifle

I don't recall a crossbolt safety on any levergun before 1990 or '92.

[.357's real easy to reload for. Just use the brass cases- not the nickel ones- because the nickel cases are more brittle and therefore don't last as long. Four or five loadings and we're finding splits in the nickel cases and no problems with brass after a few more loadings.]

Now, here's another thought- an aquaintance of mine who shoots CAS told me they make a block that fits in place of the crossbolt safety- Marlin and Winchester both- and just basically fills the hole left when the safety is removed. The halfcock notch still works, so the whole gun works just like a pre-safety production gun. That is, if you can't find an older one and still want one without the safety.

FWIW, I'm thinking real serious about removing the safety from my Winchester carbine. That crossbolt saftey has messed with me on several occassions, one of which was under time. If I take that gun hunting and the old big 'un steps out of cover, that snap'll probably be the last I'll see of him.