Winchester Ranger T-Series 127gr +P+ in Clear Ballistics Gel.

[5pins]

Test Gun: Sig P229, Beretta Nano.
Barrel length: 3.9 inches, 3 inches.
Ammunition: Winchester Ranger T-Series 127gr +P+ (RA9TA)
Test media: 10% Clear Ballistics Gel.
Distance: 10 feet.
Chronograph: PACT 1 XP with inferred sky screens.

I finally had the opportunity to try some ammo out and today’s pick was the Winchester Ranger T-Series 127gr +P+. I got an average velocity of 1237fps last year when I shot it out of my Glock 19. This round has been around for a while and it appears to be a Black Talon without the black coating. Two rounds into bare gel and two into heavy clothing with the Sig P229 with a 3.9-inch barrel and then two round into bare gel with the Beretta Nano with a 3-inch barrel.

The first round from the Sig into bare gel had a velocity of 1239fps penetrated to 18.5 inches and expanded to .64 inches. Round two hit the gel at 1225fps and penetrated to 19.25 inches with an expansion of .67 inches.



Into the heavy clothed gel, both rounds passed completely through both 16-inch gel block and were not recovered. It suggests to me that neither one expanded. The velocity was 1221fps for the first round and 1225fps for the second.


Out of the Nano, round one had a velocity of 1200fps expanded to .57 and penetrated to 16.5 inches. There was only slight deformation of the hollow point but nothing one would call expansion. It had a velocity of 1171fps and penetrated to 29.5 inches.

 

[Gordon]

I used this load or one close to it for a few years in a Beretta 92 and it gets another 12-150 FPS over what your Sig gets. It certainly seems the best 9mm load to me out of the Beretta 92 or the Glock 26 I also shot it from regularly. I did use it to slaughter a few of the last od the goats I used to raise and it expanded to around 3/4" and thru the head of those shot with it. In my opinion about the most effective 9mm ammo made so far , all around.

 

[C0untZer0]

Thanks for the test

Winchester changed the bullet design slightly when they went from Black Talon to Ranger "T". The Ranger "T" bullet has a slightly deeper cavity than the Black Talon and the diameter of the cavity on the Ranger "T" is also slightly larger. There is some speculation that Winchester also changed the lead alloy composition.

Twang & Bang did a comparison of the 40 S&W bullets in 2013:



The RA9TA has a history of penetrating pretty deeply - 18" to 20 " just in bare gel.

 

[5pins]

In Black Talon test I did, it did much better than this ranger round.

https://generalcartridge.wordpress....mm-147gr-black-talon-in-clear-ballistics-gel/

 

[paulsj]

I don't care for extra recoil and muzzle flash. In practical terms what does +p+ have to offer ?

 

[C0untZer0]

I don't care for extra recoil and muzzle flash. In practical terms what does +p+ have to offer ?

In practical terms the standard pressure 147gr Ranger "T" Series (RA9T) outperforms this round in bare gel and IWBA protocol tests. Just as there are people out there who seek out and buy the Federal 9BPLE, there are people who buy the Winchester RA9TA. Some people think +P means more "stopping power". I've also noticed that ammo makers seldom drop a cartridge from their lineup, even after they've developed more effective cartridges. Winchester still makes the WWB JHPs even though they have PDX and the Ranger series. Federal still sells the 115gr +P+ 9BPLE even though their HST is a more effective round. They never dropped the Hydra-Shok line even though the design is old and the HST is a better performing round, and actually they re-designed the Hydra-Shok for 2018. Once a cartridge builds up a following it becomes a brand name like Tide detergent and the ammo makers will keep that brand.

 

[HMOB3655]

I'm a retired "new guy" here but fwiw I used this round on duty and it worked very well from our issued
G19. Two rounds between the neck & nipple so to speak and he dropped his own weapon and collapsed.

 

[TTv2]

In practical terms the standard pressure 147gr Ranger "T" Series (RA9T) outperforms this round in bare gel and IWBA protocol tests. Just as there are people out there who seek out and buy the Federal 9BPLE, there are people who buy the Winchester RA9TA. Some people think +P means more "stopping power". I've also noticed that ammo makers seldom drop a cartridge from their lineup, even after they've developed more effective cartridges. Winchester still makes the WWB JHPs even though they have PDX and the Ranger series. Federal still sells the 115gr +P+ 9BPLE even though their HST is a more effective round. They never dropped the Hydra-Shok line even though the design is old and the HST is a better performing round, and actually they re-designed the Hydra-Shok for 2018. Once a cartridge builds up a following it becomes a brand name like Tide detergent and the ammo makers will keep that brand.

I think the reason they don't drop old technology JHP ammo is they've already got machines set up to make the bullets, so why bother tearing them down to run new ammo? And yes, probably some people have more faith and confidence in old tech ammo they've been using for 20+ years so they stick with it. If it works, why change?

Price is also a factor, those WWB 9mm JHP's are CHEAP and they still work.

As for 9mm +P or higher, I don't see the benefit to it over standard pressure either. I don't see a significant enough increase in velocity, thus power, in them. The point to 9mm is not only cheap practice ammo, but to have a lower recoil ammo compared to .40 or .45 for faster follow up shots. If people want a significantly faster 9mm projectile... .357 Sig. People don't want to pay for the cost of it so they try to justify +P+ as the ultimate in power and affordability because they can practice with $10 boxes of 50 rd steel case 9mm. The issue is +P+ 9mm is tough to find and I don't trust it to work as well or be as powerful or as good a stopper as .357, .40, .45 are.

At the end of the day if a person wants a powerful handgun, they have to pay for it. If a person just wants a handgun... 9mm is hard to beat, but it is what it is.

 

[Sauer Grapes]

So much for premium ammo. At least in this case. I've been researching 38spl. One test I saw was with the Speer Gold Dot short barrel +P. Test temperature was 20 degrees. Ammo was left in the cold for an hour. Two shots, neither round expanded. Go figure.
I'm sure the ammo companies test in a very controlled environment to get the best possible results.
I guess we all need to stay indoors in the winter. I understand the problems with the 38spl cartridge and short barrels. On the plus side, penetration was excellent.
I've seen enough test with ammo to determine, HPs' are a crap shoot.

 

[HMOB3655]

FWIW I've never seen a .38spcl +P or +P+ jhp expand from a 2" barrel other than the original soft lead Scorpion 140gr +P hand made by the HydraShock corporation in the 70s. The best "modern" idea was the Jim Cirillo designed full copper wad cutters that were hand made by Fuzzy Fletcher and marketed as the SafeStop product 16-17 years ago. The sharp edge gave excellent penetration and generated a full caliber width wound channel more like a 9mm jhp approx. the size of a number 2 pencil in diameter.

 

[amd6547]

Gel testing is interesting, but doesn’t eclipse the long successful history of both the 9BPLE and the 127gn +P+ Ranger.
I’ve shot that Ranger load for years in various nines...HiPower, Glock, Beretta 92...it was always one of the most accurate loads for me, and always reliable.
I’m using the +P HST 147gn now, only because I haven’t seen a good deal on the Ranger lately.

 

[TTv2]

FWIW I've never seen a .38spcl +P or +P+ jhp expand from a 2" barrel other than the original soft lead Scorpion 140gr +P hand made by the HydraShock corporation in the 70s.

I have, but from the LuckyGunner tests they did. While the bullets expand in the lab, I have doubts how they'll do on the street when in colder weather people are wearing layers upon layers of clothing. They'd probably would work well in warm weather.

Still, the point of carrying and using expanding bullets is to reduce overpenetration dangers. While I haven't seen any data as to how they perform, Polycase makes .38 ammo with their polymer/copper bullet. It's a round nose bullet, so it doesn't expand, so clothing is irrelevant, but it's so light it tumbles in soft tissue and does a lot of damage. If the 9mm Polycase bullet does 14 inches of penetration and lots of damage, then the heavier .38 will do the same if not more and still not overpentrate.

 

[Proud Southern Son]

I don't care for extra recoil and muzzle flash. In practical terms what does +p+ have to offer ?

A track record.

 

[Proud Southern Son]

In practical terms the standard pressure 147gr Ranger "T" Series (RA9T) outperforms this round in bare gel and IWBA protocol tests. Just as there are people out there who seek out and buy the Federal 9BPLE, there are people who buy the Winchester RA9TA. Some people think +P means more "stopping power". I've also noticed that ammo makers seldom drop a cartridge from their lineup, even after they've developed more effective cartridges. Winchester still makes the WWB JHPs even though they have PDX and the Ranger series. Federal still sells the 115gr +P+ 9BPLE even though their HST is a more effective round. They never dropped the Hydra-Shok line even though the design is old and the HST is a better performing round, and actually they re-designed the Hydra-Shok for 2018. Once a cartridge builds up a following it becomes a brand name like Tide detergent and the ammo makers will keep that brand.

Federal still sells the 9BPLE because it still works, just like the 127+p+ Winchester. I would never say the heavier and slower rounds using modern bullets are not effective, because they are. But there are some tried and true loads that have a long enough record in the real world, not the lab. “Stopping power” or “energy transfer” is a real thing, despite Internet forums poking fun. It can’t be counted on to end a fight every time, but neither can new tech subsonic stuff.

 

[silversport]

While remembering that none of these were conclusive of they would still be ruling the roost...good luck with your choice...

Bill

 

[M1key]

I do my own testing of the Ranger round and get better results than the OP. It resides in my wife's Glock 19 as I type. It is accurate, shoots to POA, and she handles it just fine. We have several hundred rounds I bought at a local show from a dealer. No point for her to shoot anything else.

I try a variety and test for penetration and expansion. Lots of different loads perform well.

My G17 carries the Ranger 124+P. It also is accurate and tests well.

M