Windham Weaponry: Owners Opinions
- Thread starter meanmrmustard
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KansasSasquatch
Member
I've been trying to make the exact same decision, with an S&W Sport thrown in the equation. I think I'm pretty much settled on the WW.
Quentin
Member
This point has been made before but it's worth repeating. The WW and Sig will be carbine length gas which is optimal at 14.5" but not 16". The much superior BCM can be configured with midlength gas which is optimal at 16". My BCM is a 16" lightweight middy and is a smooth running, muzzle light rifle.
I've only handled the WW and Sig but must say I liked the Sig. A couple weeks ago it was $919 at my nearby Walmart and a buddy almost bought it. Kinda wish he had so we could try it out. I wouldn't buy one myself.
I've only handled the WW and Sig but must say I liked the Sig. A couple weeks ago it was $919 at my nearby Walmart and a buddy almost bought it. Kinda wish he had so we could try it out. I wouldn't buy one myself.
meanmrmustard
Member
Not to throw a cog in your works, but its hard for me not to get another Sport! In all reality, it wasn't lacking anything I needed.
Hmmm...
meanmrmustard
Member
Don't know why it's "much superior", but if it makes you happy...
Never owned a mid length, shot em, never owned one. Didn't notice a difference, so it's a non issue for me.
meanmrmustard
Member
Plus, I've been price checking in my neighborhood: no BCMs for under a $1k, so that negates that option entirely as I don't order firearms online. I don't trust it.
Sig is looking promising. WW is kinda blah with that heavy trigger. Then there's a build. I like having too many options!
Southside830
Member
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Quentin
Member
I'm also curious why you wouldn't go with online sales when to your advantage. I buy stripped lowers locally then compare the rest of the parts locally and online. I've bought three uppers online and love seeing the nice man in the brown truck walking up to the front door! 
forindooruseonly
Member
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2009
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- 1,076
I bought the WW equivalent of an optics ready carbine to play with. I'm not much of an AR fan, and am not the type to hang a bunch of MagPul and accessories all over it, but I've got a ton of magazines and ammo that's been collected over the years from when I kept trying to convince myself to like the platform Additionally, as a small business guy, I had some respect for the story behind the company and thought, why not, I'll give them a try. I needed a truck gun to handle pest control on the farm, so an inexpensive AR fit the bill.
Currently, the only other ARs we own are old SP-1s that weve had since the early 80s, one with a RR, and a SR-25, so I can't exactly whip out something similar to compare it with. I paid in the low $800 range for mine. Fit and finish seems fine, I wouldn't call it nice, but I'd say it is on par with most other ARs I run into. Typical black finish, seems durable enough. Coating looks even, roll marks look crisp, there's nothing that stands out as a blemish externally. The milling on the receiver looks fine, smooth, no burrs or anything. BCG looks like its staked ok and there aren't any unusual wear patterns that would indicate it being out of spec or something. In short, it is what it is - a run of the mill AR.
We've put about a thousand rounds down range with it. Hardly enough to say anything long term, but enough to get a feel for it. It's been flawlessly reliable, even running the cheapest steel cased ammo we have on hand. I haven't benched it for accuracy, but I can hold about 5 inch groups from a slinged sitting position at a hundred yards, which is about good enough for my needs as a truck gun. The factory magazine feels really cheap and flimsy. The hand guard was unimpressive too, but I don't have much of anything to compare it to. Stock functions fine, I don't feel like its flimsy or anything and it extends easy enough. The trigger is heavy and a little creepy when new. It's been smoothing out as it gets shot, but it's still heavy. I'll probably try to remedy that, because I use mine more for pest control than anything. I'd say it's probably fine for any type of SD situation where I wouldn't want a light trigger. The trigger and the magazine are the two things that stuck out as being disappointing. However, all the junky, beat down milsurp mags I've been using have all functioned fine with it, so whatever, I've got a ton of them.
At the end of the day, I'm satisfied with the reliability of the WW AR. It rides around in a working truck, so it sees a fair share of dirt and grime, and still has accounted for a few hogs and coyotes. It has a good warranty if you buy it new, assuming they live up to their claims. I have not had to deal with them however, so I can't say if their customer service is good or not. Accuracy seems adequate, I'm not expecting to go shoot a high power match with it, but it's certainly enough to ring my 8 inch plates off hand at a hundred. A good marksman could tell you better about the accuracy of them. If you are wanting to build your own AR, then I'm sure you could piece together something really great for the same money. Personally, I don't care enough for the platform to get into it like that, my time is spent elsewhere rather than researching parts and pieces and prices. But, like I said, I'm not one to customize an AR either, so I'm not worried about that aspect. I wanted a basic, but decent quality AR that I could throw around and not worry too much about. It seems to work for that.
One final thought, which probably just goes to show what an old curmudgeon I am. I appreciate the fact there's no zombies or biohazard signs or spiders or bears or anything else military or shtf oriented stamped on the reciever - just lettering. Anyways, that's my impression as the owner of one.
Currently, the only other ARs we own are old SP-1s that weve had since the early 80s, one with a RR, and a SR-25, so I can't exactly whip out something similar to compare it with. I paid in the low $800 range for mine. Fit and finish seems fine, I wouldn't call it nice, but I'd say it is on par with most other ARs I run into. Typical black finish, seems durable enough. Coating looks even, roll marks look crisp, there's nothing that stands out as a blemish externally. The milling on the receiver looks fine, smooth, no burrs or anything. BCG looks like its staked ok and there aren't any unusual wear patterns that would indicate it being out of spec or something. In short, it is what it is - a run of the mill AR.
We've put about a thousand rounds down range with it. Hardly enough to say anything long term, but enough to get a feel for it. It's been flawlessly reliable, even running the cheapest steel cased ammo we have on hand. I haven't benched it for accuracy, but I can hold about 5 inch groups from a slinged sitting position at a hundred yards, which is about good enough for my needs as a truck gun. The factory magazine feels really cheap and flimsy. The hand guard was unimpressive too, but I don't have much of anything to compare it to. Stock functions fine, I don't feel like its flimsy or anything and it extends easy enough. The trigger is heavy and a little creepy when new. It's been smoothing out as it gets shot, but it's still heavy. I'll probably try to remedy that, because I use mine more for pest control than anything. I'd say it's probably fine for any type of SD situation where I wouldn't want a light trigger. The trigger and the magazine are the two things that stuck out as being disappointing. However, all the junky, beat down milsurp mags I've been using have all functioned fine with it, so whatever, I've got a ton of them.
At the end of the day, I'm satisfied with the reliability of the WW AR. It rides around in a working truck, so it sees a fair share of dirt and grime, and still has accounted for a few hogs and coyotes. It has a good warranty if you buy it new, assuming they live up to their claims. I have not had to deal with them however, so I can't say if their customer service is good or not. Accuracy seems adequate, I'm not expecting to go shoot a high power match with it, but it's certainly enough to ring my 8 inch plates off hand at a hundred. A good marksman could tell you better about the accuracy of them. If you are wanting to build your own AR, then I'm sure you could piece together something really great for the same money. Personally, I don't care enough for the platform to get into it like that, my time is spent elsewhere rather than researching parts and pieces and prices. But, like I said, I'm not one to customize an AR either, so I'm not worried about that aspect. I wanted a basic, but decent quality AR that I could throw around and not worry too much about. It seems to work for that.
One final thought, which probably just goes to show what an old curmudgeon I am. I appreciate the fact there's no zombies or biohazard signs or spiders or bears or anything else military or shtf oriented stamped on the reciever - just lettering. Anyways, that's my impression as the owner of one.
meanmrmustard
Member
^Dont forget, it's wearing the American flag. Thank you for this write up, it's very helpful and well written.
Back40 and Quentin: I don't order online because I shop locally, keep my money in my community much as possible, don't want unseen imperfections arriving at my door, and find transfer fees as a rather unnecessary expenditure when driving to my LGS or Cabelas costs less in gas, I can see what I'm buying, and I can leave with it at my convenience. Only sucky thing is, neither is really on board about ordering things they don't normally carry. Windhams are carried everywhere I go, Sigs only slightly less, tons of Colts, S&Ws, and Bushys/DPMS/Olympic.
I live within driving distance of at least 12 shops. I may have to hit them all. Also, other than playing the waiting game, I've no qualms ordering uppers online as its less of a hassle for all involved. But, I'd much rather something not bought sight unseen.
Back40 and Quentin: I don't order online because I shop locally, keep my money in my community much as possible, don't want unseen imperfections arriving at my door, and find transfer fees as a rather unnecessary expenditure when driving to my LGS or Cabelas costs less in gas, I can see what I'm buying, and I can leave with it at my convenience. Only sucky thing is, neither is really on board about ordering things they don't normally carry. Windhams are carried everywhere I go, Sigs only slightly less, tons of Colts, S&Ws, and Bushys/DPMS/Olympic.
I live within driving distance of at least 12 shops. I may have to hit them all. Also, other than playing the waiting game, I've no qualms ordering uppers online as its less of a hassle for all involved. But, I'd much rather something not bought sight unseen.
If you buy from a reputable manufacturer then it is not a problem buying online. Especially with 12 shops nearby transfer should be 25-30$ and since online prices are ~20% cheaper on a 1000$ gun that puts you way ahead. Which is why we keep teying to tell you that a quality gun can be had for the same price as the off brands you are obssesing over.
Btw try http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=BCOM
Top rate dealer and you can put together exactly the gun you want (or should want)
Btw try http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=BCOM
Top rate dealer and you can put together exactly the gun you want (or should want)
Capybara
Member
A WW owner responds...
Hi:
I bought the Windham Weaponry SRC, the sightless version of the MPC, back in March of this year. I did my research and I liked the little extras that they include, the construction and I liked the fact that I bought a rifle that was made by former Bushmaster employees that were screwed over by the Freedom Group when they bought Bushmaster and closed the Windham, ME plant.
The Windham Weaponry rifles are not Bushmasters. They are not cheap, they are not "no name", they are very well built and crafted lower price ARs.
Mine has been pretty much flawless through about 2k rounds. No FTF or FTE's except when I used a brass catcher and the rounds were not able to eject correctly because of the catcher.
I bought my SRC on sale at $799.00, you can find the MPC for the same or $50.00 higher if you search around. Fit and finish are outstanding, construction is robust, trigger is decent, if not great. I mounted a Nikon M-223 2x8 optic and the rifle shoots very well.
Honestly, based upon my extensive research, you are not going to find an AR under $1,000.00 that is significantly different or better than the others. At that price point and level of competition in the marketplace, there are just small differences to the average shooter. The S&W MP15 Sport is a good little rifle as well, but I do shoot prone in sandy and windy environments and I wanted a dust cover. I have three other ARs, all home builds and I like the WW the best. The others are based upon Spikes and Anderson lowers and they are good too, but I do see fit and finish issues that are not on my WW.
I am being as objective as possible, if I didn't like my WW, I would tell you and I would sell it, I have very little ego about my choice of guns. I have a Ruger P95. Good cheap gun, I don't regret buying it but I knew if I wanted a GREAT 9mm handgun, I would need to spend more and I researched it and ended up with the CZ75 SP-01, a much better gun. Same with the WW ARs, you aren't going to beat them for the price.
The Colts are nice and resale will be strong due to name recognition but the fit and finish on the Colt ARs SUCKs! I have seen half a dozen of them and new out of the box, all were rough, have machine marks, burrs and often have scratches. Not a big deal, but in comparison, my SRC is like a Rolex as far as fit and finish, it is beautiful and reeks of quality.
Hi:
I bought the Windham Weaponry SRC, the sightless version of the MPC, back in March of this year. I did my research and I liked the little extras that they include, the construction and I liked the fact that I bought a rifle that was made by former Bushmaster employees that were screwed over by the Freedom Group when they bought Bushmaster and closed the Windham, ME plant.
The Windham Weaponry rifles are not Bushmasters. They are not cheap, they are not "no name", they are very well built and crafted lower price ARs.
Mine has been pretty much flawless through about 2k rounds. No FTF or FTE's except when I used a brass catcher and the rounds were not able to eject correctly because of the catcher.
I bought my SRC on sale at $799.00, you can find the MPC for the same or $50.00 higher if you search around. Fit and finish are outstanding, construction is robust, trigger is decent, if not great. I mounted a Nikon M-223 2x8 optic and the rifle shoots very well.
Honestly, based upon my extensive research, you are not going to find an AR under $1,000.00 that is significantly different or better than the others. At that price point and level of competition in the marketplace, there are just small differences to the average shooter. The S&W MP15 Sport is a good little rifle as well, but I do shoot prone in sandy and windy environments and I wanted a dust cover. I have three other ARs, all home builds and I like the WW the best. The others are based upon Spikes and Anderson lowers and they are good too, but I do see fit and finish issues that are not on my WW.
I am being as objective as possible, if I didn't like my WW, I would tell you and I would sell it, I have very little ego about my choice of guns. I have a Ruger P95. Good cheap gun, I don't regret buying it but I knew if I wanted a GREAT 9mm handgun, I would need to spend more and I researched it and ended up with the CZ75 SP-01, a much better gun. Same with the WW ARs, you aren't going to beat them for the price.
The Colts are nice and resale will be strong due to name recognition but the fit and finish on the Colt ARs SUCKs! I have seen half a dozen of them and new out of the box, all were rough, have machine marks, burrs and often have scratches. Not a big deal, but in comparison, my SRC is like a Rolex as far as fit and finish, it is beautiful and reeks of quality.
Sergei Mosin
Member
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2011
- Messages
- 1,918
You probably already know this, but WW has a presence on arfcom. I'm not a member there, but I do lurk occasionally and read their subforum a fair bit while researching my purchase.
meanmrmustard
Member
Thank you for this write up. Have you experienced any negatives thus far? I, too, am not impressed with Colt, not just CS, but the rifle I received in unfinished condition. They rest on laurels. But, I don't want to compare the MPC to the 6920.
I have found a shop in STL MO that peddles WW for 849.99. Sweet.
What accuracy are you experiencing with your particular rifle?
meanmrmustard
Member
I lurk as well, but wasn't aware they were involved. Thanks for letting me know, that's a valuable tidbit.
SSN Vet
Member
FWIW, Walmarts are NOT independently owned...... They are the very definition of a corporate gig from A to Z.
Quentin
Member
That's a good point, MMM, I agonize over such decisions too. I like to support local businesses but in a smaller community the selection isn't great and the in-shop knowledge level isn't the best. Like buying electronics, trucks and other things you have to become your own expert in important purchases. I do have one gun shop I like and support but when it comes to ARs the only way I'm gonna get exactly what I want is to order the upper and have it shipped to my door. The stripped lower and other parts I tend to buy locally.
The worst thing about many of the shops around here is the poor information given. According to them whatever they have in stock is the best and if they don't stock it it's junk. And the stuff in stock tends to be DPMS, BM, S&W and Colt. The latter two are the only ones I'd consider but not midlength or pencil profile, so that's that. (Recently WW and SIG M400 have shown up at Walmart but not exactly what I want.)
Anyway, the point is to get what YOU want. Your money, your rifle.
meanmrmustard
Member
That IS important, getting what I want. I'm looking at BCMs as we speak, but I'm hearing a lot of positive in the WW. I've found it for less than expected.
I've owned Smiths, and they are awesome.
Not sure I can be of any help on this post. But I have owned two AR's built by the people in Windham, ME (Bushmaster). They have both been of excelent quality and more important accuracy. My first AR was an Armalite AR-15 purchased in 1969 and kept for 20 years until I had to sell it for monitary reasons. The next a Bushmaster Varminter certified at 0.5. MOA actually it shot at 0.33 MAO at 100 yards. The last a Bushmaster C-15 Ultralite that I couldn't pass up at Cabela's for $599.00. That was the one AR that I bought as a winter project gun to see what I could do with it. (was looking for another handgun at the time).
To me the most important part of any rifle is the chamber and barrel. The two companies that I feel spend the most time on making sure their barrels and chambers are cut correctly each and every time is Savage and Windham. Every thing else is replaceable.
You can get a base model of any rifle and add to it whatever makes you happy. To me it was the pistol grip and butt stock that had to go on the C-15. After that I wanted a Quadrail (not sure I would go that route again, but it sure stiffened the pencil barrel and improved accuracy by 200 %).
I have seen many builds with other mfg's parts (generally running around $1,500 per build). I have yet to see any that proform any better than my cheap build (partial build). So I guess the point is that I would buy another AR from the people at Windham, ME in a heartbeat without any reservations.
Just my opinion
Jim
To me the most important part of any rifle is the chamber and barrel. The two companies that I feel spend the most time on making sure their barrels and chambers are cut correctly each and every time is Savage and Windham. Every thing else is replaceable.
You can get a base model of any rifle and add to it whatever makes you happy. To me it was the pistol grip and butt stock that had to go on the C-15. After that I wanted a Quadrail (not sure I would go that route again, but it sure stiffened the pencil barrel and improved accuracy by 200 %).
I have seen many builds with other mfg's parts (generally running around $1,500 per build). I have yet to see any that proform any better than my cheap build (partial build). So I guess the point is that I would buy another AR from the people at Windham, ME in a heartbeat without any reservations.
Just my opinion
Jim
meanmrmustard
Member
Thanks, Jim. All info, good or bad, is valued. I'm hearing literally nothing but good things about Windham. Once ties were cut, these folks have taken the best from their old business and have built something special. That's the gist I'm getting thus far.
I've many days to decide, but so far, WW is winning out on being the rifle I choose.
Tigerjeebs
Member
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2012
- Messages
- 11
Hi, thought I'd chime in
I originally went shopping for a MP15 sport and came across the WW MPC. At my LGS the MPC was 100 more than the sport and had a number of features I loved. CL barrel, FA, dust cover, non forged trigger guard. Now that said, the front sight post is not F marked. If you mount a MBUS you will need to raise the front post or buy a taller post to make up for it. Also, it sports a commercial buffer tube. Aslo With the tube, the castle nut is not staked. (Edit: it also sports an m16 BCG, not an AR15 and does not have an H buffer).
Those are the only knocks against the rifle. The tube is a very easy fix. The gas key is properly staked, and all else is fairly mil spec except for the 1/9 barrel. As I reload, 55 gr is all I shoot. This was never a problem for me. The trigger is heavy, but mine has a clean break and I don't mind it.
I have just north of 2k rounds through it. Not a single malfunction. I've ran Pmags and cheap AR stoner metal mags to great success. The first 1k were all fairly slow fire. The last 1k have been abusive, as I have almost entirely shot those rounds with simulated full auto through the use of the slide fire stock. The rifle has performed perfectly. I've ran 90 rounds through it as fast as I could change the mags. Smoking barrel and all. Narry an issue.
As for accuracy, I've ran mostly iron sights. I recently switched to a vortex 1x strikefire with a 4 moa dot. I can easily pick off bowling pins from 50-75 yards which more than fulfills my needs with a non magnified optic.
I have nothing but praise for the rifle which at 799 was a bargain for the quality windham seems to offer.
(Last edit, included a bit of rifle porn of my rifle in its current configuration.)
I originally went shopping for a MP15 sport and came across the WW MPC. At my LGS the MPC was 100 more than the sport and had a number of features I loved. CL barrel, FA, dust cover, non forged trigger guard. Now that said, the front sight post is not F marked. If you mount a MBUS you will need to raise the front post or buy a taller post to make up for it. Also, it sports a commercial buffer tube. Aslo With the tube, the castle nut is not staked. (Edit: it also sports an m16 BCG, not an AR15 and does not have an H buffer).
Those are the only knocks against the rifle. The tube is a very easy fix. The gas key is properly staked, and all else is fairly mil spec except for the 1/9 barrel. As I reload, 55 gr is all I shoot. This was never a problem for me. The trigger is heavy, but mine has a clean break and I don't mind it.
I have just north of 2k rounds through it. Not a single malfunction. I've ran Pmags and cheap AR stoner metal mags to great success. The first 1k were all fairly slow fire. The last 1k have been abusive, as I have almost entirely shot those rounds with simulated full auto through the use of the slide fire stock. The rifle has performed perfectly. I've ran 90 rounds through it as fast as I could change the mags. Smoking barrel and all. Narry an issue.
As for accuracy, I've ran mostly iron sights. I recently switched to a vortex 1x strikefire with a 4 moa dot. I can easily pick off bowling pins from 50-75 yards which more than fulfills my needs with a non magnified optic.
I have nothing but praise for the rifle which at 799 was a bargain for the quality windham seems to offer.
(Last edit, included a bit of rifle porn of my rifle in its current configuration.)
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Quentin
Member
I wonder if they're also going to sell the 0.04" taller front sight post like the old BM did!
It was very annoying to need to buy the "Colt" post but at least BM made it available cheap, like $6. ArmaLite, DPMS and others also had this problem. (As long as you used their rear sights or carry handle it wasn't an issue but once you went third party with a milspec height rear sight you had to unscrew out the front sight until it wobbled.) Thanks for pointing out these issues, Tiger. I'm surprised WW didn't upgrade in this area, but you have to give them credit, they do make 'em like the old BM, warts and all. A few minor upgrades and they could have said "we build them better than Bushmaster". It's just wrong that so many companies still slap on short sights, commercial receiver extensions, etc. And since we're talking carbine length gas, they should use the H buffer.
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Barrel steel is as important as the plating/coating. If the underlying steel is soft, chrome plating/nitriding will wear quicker. In general, barrels made of 4140 won't last as long as those made from 4150 CMV but by the time you shoot enough to wear out a 4140 barrel, you've done an impressive amount of shooting indeed. There is nothing wrong with a good stainless steel barrel either
You'd have to kick in extra to pay for the tax, but this rifle is a great value and it's not a Colt. It's also currently in stock
http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde...-hammer-forged-m4a1-patrol-rifle-package.html
I have a PSA middy carbine w/SS barrel and I've run it hard and it works well.
View attachment 636109
A gun savvy police officer I know has a PSA M4 and it's also working well for him. The barrel of the one above is made by FN and the bolt is made of the right alloy and is properly tested. If you don't like the Aimpoint Patrol, it will sell within seconds if you put it up for sale for $300 on the internet to bring the base cost of the rifle down to $700
You'd have to kick in extra to pay for the tax, but this rifle is a great value and it's not a Colt. It's also currently in stock
http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde...-hammer-forged-m4a1-patrol-rifle-package.html
I have a PSA middy carbine w/SS barrel and I've run it hard and it works well.
View attachment 636109
A gun savvy police officer I know has a PSA M4 and it's also working well for him. The barrel of the one above is made by FN and the bolt is made of the right alloy and is properly tested. If you don't like the Aimpoint Patrol, it will sell within seconds if you put it up for sale for $300 on the internet to bring the base cost of the rifle down to $700
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