Winter Ammo..What's best for expansion??

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What do you reccomend in 9mm for personal defense ammo that will expand through the layers of garments ? thoughts on 380 ammo as well..
as always all suggestions appreciated...
 
Your first concern should be on ensuring that the rounds you choose will penetrate heavily layered clothing and still have enough oomph to penetrate deeply into the vital area of your attacker.

I've not seen any specifics on it, but I'm wondering how the expanding solid nose from Federal(?) would do against heavy winter clothing...
 
I was told light fast hollowpoints can explode on a heavy winter coat and not penetrate at all.

I don't think I want to be the guinea pig on that one.
 
I've always switched to 124gr JHPs in the winter time in my 9mms.

This site http://www.ammolab.com/federal_efmj.htm has some great information on Federals EFMJ.

Looks to be a promising load.

This name of this guy who owns the site sounds familiar. Perhaps a THR member or TFLer?

Good SHooting
Red
 
The big problem with any hollowpoint is that if it gets clogged with material such as down, cloth, etc., it's going to perform like hardball. Federal's EFMJ and Cor-Bon's Pow'rBall get around this by having an expansion element "built-in" to the bullet (the silicon plug in Federal, and the polymer ball in Cor-Bon). However, Cor-Bon, in an attempt to get the highest possible velocity, went to a lighter projectile. That combination of light-and-fast is historically not so good at deep penetration. Federal's load is heavier and slower, so I would assume it's likely to out-penetrate the Cor-Bon load through winter clothing and a heavy-set target.

This, of course, is another good argument for a larger caliber... if it doesn't expand, a 9mm. is just a 9mm., but a .45 is putting a 60% larger hole in the target!
 
"Shoot twice ... 100% larger hole."

Shooting until the threat is neutralized isn't such a bad idea.

But, if you have a bullet that's not going to penetrate the winter clothing, or penetrates only into non-vital areas of the threat, then that 100% larger hole is about 90% worthless, in my opinion.
 
I carry the 200gr Federal EFMJ +p .45ACP in my Glock 30. It shoots mild (relatively speaking), and is good and accurate. All the data I've read shows it to be a very reliable expander.

Great stuff IMHO.
 
I switch to XTP handloads when the temperatures drop. Colder weather means the goblins load up with everything from sawed-off shotguns to improvised body armor when the guano hits the impeller.

I make a point of going to the range in the foulest of weather and I wear insulated gloves.

Trisha
 
RBCD. They have a round nose profile so no concern about a HP clogging up. They penetrate car doors and still perform so a heavy coat should not be a problem. The 9mm Tactical is over 2300 fps from a 4" barrel.
 
I think Jeff is right about RBCD Ammunition...

Every carry pistol got loaded with RBCD Ammunition after I tested some in .380ACP from my Colt Mustang.

KR
 
If it were 30 mm instead of 9 I'd recommend HEDP ;)

There are so many variables in the equation I'd be tempted to say stick with what you know works in your gun and if it comes up, shoot until threat is stopped. But that's just me.
 
Sorry about that, www.rbcd.net

If you are interested here is an impact photo of a 9mm on an 80 degree 4 lb roast. Who cares if there is a down jacket over the person, it just contains the hamburger better.
Image54.jpg
 
I carry the 200gr Federal EFMJ +p .45ACP in my Glock 30. It shoots mild (relatively speaking), and is good and accurate. All the data I've read shows it to be a very reliable expander.
Click to expand...

Really? Where did you read that? I've heard the opposite more than once.

I'm posting this pic here that I've posted before but it's worth seeing. If it can't expand reliably through denim I don't want to try a winter coat and all things beneath.

EFMJ.jpg



brad cook
 
4 lb roast...actually, what that picture just described is that the temporary cavity created by the 9mm RBCD is at least equal to or greater in volume than a 4lb roast.

A man/woman/bear is not a 4lb roast. The temporary cavity that you create will be contained inside of the 160lb man/woman/bear and all you will get is the permanent cavity the 9mm makes as it crushes tissue and bone.

Shoot at a 100lb roast with the 9mm RBCD and I would bet that you are not even going to have 4lbs of crushed tissue.

Same effect is seen in 220Swift vs p-dog or a large elk. Here, the temporary cavity made by the 220Swift is bigger than the p-dog, so you get pink mist. But the temporary cavity is wholly contained inside of the large elk.
 
Black Hills 230 gr. +P HP, regardless of weather (which is good because here you get all 4 seasons--just in the morning!:D), hits hard, expands wellish, low flash.

An expanding bullet may not. Why do you think we get all those "new" pistol rounds? It's just a pistol. Be ready.:)
 
Frohickey, his question was which bullet "will expand through the layers of garments" and I dramatically answered that question. Now if we are comparing how different slugs expand, fine. Let's compare apples to apples.

The Speer 147gr JHP
Image23.jpg


To be fair this is the RBCD 9mm:
Image14.jpg


Unfortunately I don't have any comparison shots of the 9mm load, BUT I do have the STANDARD RBCD .40 S&W fired right next to a 155gr Federal Hydra-Shok in a 10"x10"x16" calibrated 10% gelatin block, large enough and elastic enough to contain the temporary cavity). The standard .40 S&W RBCD is only going 2100 fps, the new Tactical load is goin over 2300 fps, more than 10% faster.
Side view:
gelati11.jpg


End view:
gelati12.jpg
 
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