Wisconsin Bill Bans Civilian Use of Hollow Point Ammo

[dc dalton]

A member from Wisconsin alerted us to a bill we somehow missed, AB221 introduced May 29, the bill essentially bans civilian use of hollow point ammunition stating:

'Whoever intentionally sells, transports, manufactures, or possesses any hollowpoint bullet, bullet that expands or flattens easily in the human body, or bullet with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core or is pierced with incisions is guilty of a Class H felony'

http://amgoa.org/Proposed-Wisconsin-Gun-Law-AB221/State-Law/9585

Not sure the chances it has with only three sponsors though.

 

[stumpers]

It won't make it out of committee. Two Milwaukee Democrats and a Madison Democrat are the sponsors and co-sponsor. Our three branches are currently (R)-controlled with minimal bipartisan support for much of anything.

I would normally say something nice about these legislators' other efforts to help people in our great state, but in my opinion this is just another ludicrous proposal that follows a long line of ludicrous proposals from these types.

 

[jak67429]

THats what we thought about the propsed CCW rules change. The new CCW rules change rewrite the training requirements.

 

[wildbilll]

The rules change was not due to any change it the law. It was due to the DOJ in WI overstepping their authority.

http://www.wisconsincarry.org/news/wisconsin-carry-files-lawsuit-against-doj.aspx

Assuming we are talking about the same thing.

 

[stumpers]

The CCW rules change is a DOJ rules change, not a new law that has been proposed and worked its way through committee to a full vote.

There's also a pending lawsuit against the rules change requiring class size limits of no more than 50 students per instructor.

 

[RedBowTies88]

so they're trying to make it like NJ...

I don't understand the point of those laws at all.. clearly politicians have no concept of over penetration

 

[Carl N. Brown]

....hollowpoint bullet, bullet that expands or flattens easily in the human body, or bullet with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core or is pierced with incisions....

Huh, isn't that nearly every bullet required by law for hunting?

Next you outlaw all Full Metal Jacket FMJ ("hard envelope that covers the core") as either armor-piercing or "military" style bullets.

That leaves only plain unjacketed bullets (which at the same velocities as Jacketed Soft Point JSP or Jacketed Hollow point JHP will flatten even more if made of lead, especially if they hit bone), so they will be next. If made of non-expanding metal, bullets would violate the existing definition of designed as armor piercing.

Nose of the camel in the tent, slippery slope, and all that deja vue all over again (to invoke the Godwin rule, in 1938 Nazi Germany banned .22 caliber hollow point ammunition).

I swear I think gun control advocates introduce bills designed to die in committee so they can keep their voter base fired up when they inevitably fail.

 

[stumpers]

Huh, isn't that nearly every bullet required by law for hunting?

I read the bill. There's an exception for hunting ammo, which in WI must be soft or hollow pointed.

Everyone who knows, knows this is a stupid bill. The problem is that not everyone knows. Before this becomes NJ, I encourage anyone interested to write to the committee members and voice your dissent.

 

[xxjumbojimboxx]

Some poeple

What are these poeple thinking? Hollow points are generally designed to stay INSIDE of their intended target. Not to say some dont escape, but they do so with less velocity and become less dangerous to the poeple we dont intend to shoot at! I know we can make comparisons between different calibers, but it you shoot one bullet, and another, with no change with the exception of hollow point vs ball. the ball is going to penetrate further.


and dont get me started on the whole cops can have it but poeple cant thing.

 

[sota]

so they're trying to make it like NJ...

I don't understand the point of those laws at all.. clearly politicians have no concept of over penetration

NJ does not ban JHP ammo. please go look up the statue.

 

[Torian]

Interesting. At first glance it appears this legislation would also ban certain types of EFMJs, such as Corbon P'werball, since the copper jacket doesn't totally envelop the polymer ball.

Perhaps they are confusing HPs with AP ammo? FMJ and HP will kill all the same. I'm curious as to their logic...or perhaps their lack of it.

 

[GRIZ22]

so they're trying to make it like NJ...

I don't understand the point of those laws at all.. clearly politicians have no concept of over penetration

This is worse than NJ. NJ limits where you can possess hollowpoints. this appears to ban them all together.

You shouldn't fall into a false sense of security thinking your hollowpoints won't penetrate a target. Remember the shooting outside the Empire State Building last summer? All of the injuries to bystanders were caused by hollowpoints that went through the subject. Hollowpoints limit or reduce the chance overpenetration but anything 9mm/38 spl or up will penetrate a torso most of the time unless you're shooting a big fat target.

All that being said I am all for laws that punish criminals. This, or what NJ has, are not some of them.

 

[Scimmia]

"bullet with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core" could very easily be interpreted as banning just about all "FMJ" pistol bullets since most of them have exposed bases. If this passed, you'd pretty much just be left with plated, cast, or swaged bullets.

 

[Torian]

Agreed. It sounds like they want you to use a TMJ.

 

[Scimmia]

And to be clear, "TMJ" = plated.

 

[RussellC]

It won't make it out of committee. Two Milwaukee Democrats and a Madison Democrat are the sponsors and co-sponsor. Our three branches are currently (R)-controlled with minimal bipartisan support for much of anything.

I would normally say something nice about these legislators' other efforts to help people in our great state, but in my opinion this is just another ludicrous proposal that follows a long line of ludicrous proposals from these types.

Yes, but...I find it upsetting that anyone would introduce such ridiculous legislation. Can you imagine hunters having to use RN ammo? Do they not understand there would be few clean kills?

Do they not understand you are more likely to harm an innocent person because your round goes through the intended target and hits a bystander, than with expanding ammo?

Intelligence testing should be mandated for entering into political office, and training surrounding a particular topic should be mandatory before submitting legislation on said topic! A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Sad days these!

Russellc

 

[RussellC]

so they're trying to make it like NJ...

I don't understand the point of those laws at all.. clearly politicians have no concept of over penetration

This is worse than NJ. NJ limits where you can possess hollowpoints. this appears to ban them all together.

You shouldn't fall into a false sense of security thinking your hollowpoints won't penetrate a target. Remember the shooting outside the Empire State Building last summer? All of the injuries to bystanders were caused by hollowpoints that went through the subject. Hollowpoints limit or reduce the chance overpenetration but anything 9mm/38 spl or up will penetrate a torso most of the time unless you're shooting a big fat target.

All that being said I am all for laws that punish criminals. This, or what NJ has, are not some of them.

I think its clear these types are not focusing on "criminals" and criminal activities, they foolishly want to control legal users. Why? They just dont know any better. Why wouldnt they want law abiding types to be armed to the teeth? Have they not noticed that criminals are not following the laws anyway? Their agenda is clear, and it is purely "UnAmericana" to me. I have practiced criminal defense for over 20 years, and I have NEVER had a client who used a "legal" weapon. Most of them are felons, and cant even legally possess a firearm!


Russellc

 

[CoyoteSix]

I guess .45ACP will get much more popular...

 

[mljdeckard]

And do felonies REALLY need to go all the way down to H? Isn't that more like a class B+ misdemeanor?

 

[xxjumbojimboxx]

I guess .45ACP will get much more popular...

Just picked up a para slim hawg today

 

[Archaic]

I think most of these yahoos have a stupid proposal calendar on their desk that reminds them that they have not proposed anything really dumb for a while. They have a constituency that they need to pander to once in a while I guess.

 

[rcmodel]

Wisconsin?

How the heck are they supposed to shoot holes in the lake ice all winter to draw drinking water out in buckets without hollow points??

Never mind!

Another stupid politician, with no understanding of firearms, trying to make the people who vote for more handouts feel good and vote for them.

They all got running water that don't freeze over in the cities and the state house.

rc

 

[bushmaster1313]

In New Jersey hollow point handgun ammo is illegal to possess, with exceptions.

You can buy it
transport it to your home
keep it at your home
transport it to the range
shoot it at the range.

Remember, outside of the exceptions, each bullet is a felony.

 

[beatledog7]

Agreed. It sounds like they want you to use a TMJ.

Actually, they want you to use strong words, but they have to get there in increments.

 

[heyjoe]

[GRIZ22 so they're trying to make it like NJ...

I don't understand the point of those laws at all.. clearly politicians have no concept of over penetration

This is worse than NJ. NJ limits where you can possess hollowpoints. this appears to ban them all together.

You shouldn't fall into a false sense of security thinking your hollowpoints won't penetrate a target. Remember the shooting outside the Empire State Building last summer? All of the injuries to bystanders were caused by hollowpoints that went through the subject. Hollowpoints limit or reduce the chance overpenetration but anything 9mm/38 spl or up will penetrate a torso most of the time unless you're shooting a big fat target.
/QUOTE]

9 bystanders were wounded at the empire state building in that shooting. all were hit with police bullets. 3 were hit by bullets which missed the intended target and hit bystanders directly. 6 were hit by bullet fragments from missed shots which ricocheted off the sidewalk and building. none were hit with a bullet which went through the intended target first.