Woman shot to death outside church

[bsf]

If you have your weapon, it is virtually your duty as a citizen of the United States to protect your fellows.

Your paradigm, code of ethics, etc is yours and not mine. Please do not tell me how I should live my life. As long as you respect the lives and property of me and my family, I do not care what you do, though. Go get ‘em tiger.

 

[3/325]

What about a mixture of A and C? Just because you watch the guy to see what he is going to do doesn't make you repulsive. It makes you a better witness and more aware/prepared.

You can't mix "A" and "C" simultaneously. You are either running for cover or you are standing there, staring. You can do one and THEN the other, but not both at the same time.

 

[armoredman]

Biker, God never prohibited carry that I know of.

Completely different set of rules than you're used to.

Could you clarify that, beatnik?

 

[Heavy Metal Hero]

You can't mix "A" and "C" simultaneously. You are either running for cover or you are standing there, staring. You can do one and THEN the other, but not both at the same time.

I beg to differ. Obviously you can't be running and standing still at the same time, but running to cover and having your eyes on the situation is totally possible.

But in all reality you are probably right 95% of the time.

By the way, I did not mean to do them at the same time.

 

[3/325]

I know you didn't mean simultaneously. I also wasn't referring to keen observation or trying to memorize details; I was talking about the rubbernecking, deer-in-headlights response that too many people seem to have during a violent crime in progress.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

Let's put a face with the story...



http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,5143,695242138,00.html
to the right you can see pics of the husband as well.

The article mentions that he shot her in the back and in the head as she was, I believe, walking to church.

In this instance, you can play what ifs, but he was behind her and she likely never knew anything was amiss before it happened. And, it was likely over before anyone could do anything. Which is likely what he wanted, judging from the angle of attack and the thoroughness of his strategy.

Domestic violence is a difficult thing to figure. And, a question of a duty to act may or may not be the best conversation here.

Sometimes your number is up whether you're on the church steps, taking the wafer and wine, fishing with dynamite, juggling grenades, or whatever.

I'm just very sad for everyone involved. Especially the victim, pictured above.

Sorry for talking about my feelings but sometimes it's appropriate to treat a tragedy like one.

 

[Cosmoline]

If the husband had then threatened others then maybe others could have intervened.

If a person comes up and shoots a woman dead for no apparent reason, it's pretty fair to assume they're an imminent threat to everyone in bullet radius. Unless he throws down the firearm and says he's done for the day you're clear to fire and probably should. There's no rule that a citizen has to cease fire once an assassin has got his target. You can have no way of knowing whether he's finished or not.

Either way, to sit idly by why someone is gunned down, even if he turns to leave, is not acceptable. Might as well not even call the cops. If you have your weapon, it is virtually your duty as a citizen of the United States to protect your fellows.

It's not about enforcing laws. It's about protecting yourself and others from a maniac who has WITHOUT ANY SHADOW OF DOUBT made it clear with hot lead that he's an imminent and unlawful threat. You don't have to wait for him to point his firearm at you in particular before returning fire. If he appears to be walking away, firearm in hand, by all means sneak up behind him and put your rounds into his back. There is no requirement of giving some nutcase a fair fight. Obviously, we don't know all the facts here. It's possible (though unlikely) that he tossed his iron after shooting his wife and made it clear to everyone he was done for the day. At THAT point he was arguably no longer an imminent deadly threat to all concerned. But how many killers do that?

 

[BobbyQuickdraw]

"Can I go now????? "
Yes Cyclist, you may leave.

Sorry if I was a bit testy yesterday when I made my post, it was a long day.

-
For the 3 options (A,B,C) you probably shouldn't just do A without some C, as long as you're watching for your safety/safety of others/police. Its not a great idea to turn your back and just run without keeping up situational awareness. Well, at least not a great idea for me because I'm slow! But if you're gawking, I can understand why some would think C was rude or something.

-
As for some of my earlier comments, I didn't mean to imply this could be stopped, and in this situation the guy was arrested within an hour or so, but there was no way for anyone to know that this guy would be caught. He could have just skipped town fast, which I way I feel that when someone sees something like this, if they are capable, and willing to, to perhaps take action to prevent/stop the person from leaving in a murder. Obviously this is dangerous and not for everyone and I certainly wouldn't hold it against anyone who chose not to endanger themselves in the situation as it is very much life and death if you make a move and he doesn't give up.

 

[Cosmoline]

which I way I feel that when someone sees something like this, if they are capable, and willing to, to perhaps take action to prevent/stop the person from leaving in a murder.

It's not about stopping a fleeing felon. Leave that to the police. It's about stopping an imminent threat to life and limb. Just because a killer appears to be walking away doesn't mean they're no longer a threat. These spree killers ROUTINELY waltz around while shooting, picking targets like they were picking Christmas presents. Once the man has gunned down a defenseless woman and you're clear about those circumstances, if you have a shot you'd better take it. Maybe he'll walk home and wait for the police. Maybe he'll walk to a car for cover and start taking people out as they leave the church in a panic. Once he's killed you don't have to assume he's harmless. Quite the opposite. The burden is HIS to demonstrate the woman was his only target and he's not going to harm anyone else.

That said, of course if you can escape safely do so and in no event try to chase him down yourself or follow him.

 

[Dravur]

Interesting

I am LDS and have carried at church. Every time. At least in Colorado, Montana and Idaho, I have never had a problem with carrying. No signs, nothing. In fact, a couple of the Bishops knew I carried and carried themselves.