Working up a load for 44 mag.

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SunnySlopes said:
Here's an idea. I think I'll just use Unique. I have plenty of it. 231, too. Glad I thought of it.

By the way, on the Hodgdon 231 load data site, it's "BERB FP 220 GR." I'm assuming they are talking about "Berry's Bullets?" It's at the very bottom of the chart as if it were an afterthought.

Oh, and thanks so much to all who responded. That's why I appreciate the High Road brain trust.
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I'm glad you have the suggested powder. I feel bad when people ask for data and get the old. Use this instead. When availability is sporadic at best. During shortages Alliant powder is like searching for the leprechaun at the bottom of a rainbow to pay your bills.
 
Bfh_auto said:
I'm glad you have the suggested powder. I feel bad when people ask for data and get the old. Use this instead. When availability is sporadic at best. During shortages Alliant powder is like searching for the leprechaun at the bottom of a rainbow to pay your bills.
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Maybe area dependant. Unique is the one I could usually find. In 4lb jugs 99.9% of the time. Unique and varget are all i buy in big jugs.
 
crestoncowboy said:
Maybe area dependant. Unique is the one I could usually find. In 4lb jugs 99.9% of the time. Unique and varget are all i buy in big jugs.
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I always had issues with Varget, H4350, Unique, 2400, and Tac not being available for long periods of time. So I used other options. They showed up. But you better jump on it. Because it may not be back for months.
 
CraigC said:
Seems to me the only powders I have trouble finding are the ones I'm looking for. :p
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I didn't see 296 for a long time. Thats my 44/454/460 hunting load powder.

I went without 748 for so long that I tried cfe223 for my 5.56. Works well enough and I bought several jugs. I wouldn't say better or worse. I tried to find 7828 such for a long time too for my mag rifles. Finally gave up and bought some RL 22.
 
crestoncowboy said:
I didn't see 296 for a long time. Thats my 44/454/460 hunting load powder.

I went without 748 for so long that I tried cfe223 for my 5.56. Works well enough and I bought several jugs. I wouldn't say better or worse. I tried to find 7828 such for a long time too for my mag rifles. Finally gave up and bought some RL 22.
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I was smart enough to buy in a big jug of H110 when it was easy. I've got a good stock of 4-8lb jugs of my favorite pistol powders like Unique, 2400, Titegroup, H110 and 300MP. It's the rifle powders that I've just started procuring in the last couple years that I've had issues finding. Like Alliant Power Pro 2000. I've been eyeballing a 4lb jug of CFE223. Probably should get a couple cans of 748 while the local shop has it.
 
CraigC said:
I was smart enough to buy in a big jug of H110 when it was easy. I've got a good stock of 4-8lb jugs of my favorite pistol powders like Unique, 2400, Titegroup, H110 and 300MP. It's the rifle powders that I've just started procuring in the last couple years that I've had issues finding. Like Alliant Power Pro 2000. I've been eyeballing a 4lb jug of CFE223. Probably should get a couple cans of 748 while the local shop has it.
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If you haven't used the cfe 223 its a good alternative to 748 and readily available. I got down to 2 lb of 296. Then the covid shortages hit. I have 2400 too (and several lb of blue dot I use in 10mm) so had I have ran out of 296 id have been fine. I could have used unique/bluedot/2400/AA7 and 9 and 800x... in 44 and saved the 296 amd 2400 for the 454 and 460. I have tight group/power pistol/ and clays universal but would have to look through my notes to see what I even have those for. Lol.

I'm just not one who cares for working up new loads. I find one that's sufficient for what I need and I'm fine with that forever. Only in my varmint guns (220 swift and 223) am I all that picky and keep trying to get better groups. If my deer guns are MOA then I'm fine. If I can hold 4-5 inch groups at the intended range for deer for that handgun.... I'm good. Smaller is better but once I find the more accurate charge of a powder I call it good. I quit chasing smaller groups when I got a 223 wssm and 300 mag and burned barrels out by the time I was satisfied.....now good enough is good enough for me.
 
crestoncowboy said:
If you haven't used the cfe 223 its a good alternative to 748 and readily available. I got down to 2 lb of 296. Then the covid shortages hit. I have 2400 too (and several lb of blue dot I use in 10mm) so had I have ran out of 296 id have been fine. I could have used unique/bluedot/2400/AA7 and 9 and 800x... in 44 and saved the 296 amd 2400 for the 454 and 460. I have tight group/power pistol/ and clays universal but would have to look through my notes to see what I even have those for. Lol.

I'm just not one who cares for working up new loads. I find one that's sufficient for what I need and I'm fine with that forever. Only in my varmint guns (220 swift and 223) am I all that picky and keep trying to get better groups. If my deer guns are MOA then I'm fine. If I can hold 4-5 inch groups at the intended range for deer for that handgun.... I'm good. Smaller is better but once I find the more accurate charge of a powder I call it good. I quit chasing smaller groups when I got a 223 wssm and 300 mag and burned barrels out by the time I was satisfied.....now good enough is good enough for me.
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I may get one or the other.

Me neither. I'm not one of those tinkering types that chases every last FPS or group sizes. I find one that does what I need it to and stick with it.
 
CraigC said:
I may get one or the other.

Me neither. I'm not one of those tinkering types that chases every last FPS or group sizes. I find one that does what I need it to and stick with it.
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I usually reserve a grain for safety between lots but I just load the same old loads.


I've inherited a few houses from passed away family unfortunately, in one attic I found several 70s gun mags. Field and stream or outdoor life or whatever. While glancing through them trying to throw out trash from up there I happened to stop on an article on reloading. It said that no matter the powder, assuming the powder was capable of doing so within the pressure limits, if you could get to that velocity node in that rifle then the accuracy would be the same. I called BS but have thought about for years now and I just don't know. The attic was about 900 degrees and I was in a hurry so I didn't get to read but 3 or 4 articles out of 20 or 30 magazines. But odd that article is the one that I opened a magazine to.
 
crestoncowboy said:
I usually reserve a grain for safety between lots but I just load the same old loads.


I've inherited a few houses from passed away family unfortunately, in one attic I found several 70s gun mags. Field and stream or outdoor life or whatever. While glancing through them trying to throw out trash from up there I happened to stop on an article on reloading. It said that no matter the powder, assuming the powder was capable of doing so within the pressure limits, if you could get to that velocity node in that rifle then the accuracy would be the same. I called BS but have thought about for years now and I just don't know. The attic was about 900 degrees and I was in a hurry so I didn't get to read but 3 or 4 articles out of 20 or 30 magazines. But odd that article is the one that I opened a magazine to.
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Same here. I see no reason to constantly burn up powder and primers chasing ghosts. :thumbup:
 
This is the Lyman load I mentioned in my previous post as being another load that was clearly wrong as far as velocity. This is from Lyman 51 but it’s been in every version for the last 30 years or so. No need to use a chronograph, touch one off like I did in the late 80’s expecting a light load and you’ll know it’s a misprint. 68A874F8-707A-4E00-A940-405586477724.jpeg
 
daverich4 said:
This is the Lyman load I mentioned in my previous post as being another load that was clearly wrong as far as velocity. This is from Lyman 51 but it’s been in every version for the last 30 years or so. No need to use a chronograph, touch one off like I did in the late 80’s expecting a light load and you’ll know it’s a misprint. View attachment 1120347
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I don't know why #9 has such a big disparity between manuals, but in my deep dive to 357 the books had huge spreads in loads. Lyman is the heaviest load I found. Additionally I was very disappointed that Lyman did not provide the expected update to psi in many of the pistol calibers I shoot or are hugely popular. 38, 357, and 44 all need to be current imo.
 
AJC1 said:
I don't know why #9 has such a big disparity between manuals, but in my deep dive to 357 the books had huge spreads in loads. Lyman is the heaviest load I found. Additionally I was very disappointed that Lyman did not provide the expected update to psi in many of the pistol calibers I shoot or are hugely popular. 38, 357, and 44 all need to be current imo.
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It’s because revolvers are dead, .38 is dead, .357 is only barely alive in Sub-Compact carry guns - and only uneducated troglodytes carry those - and .44 is only any good at maximum charge or beyond. The only data that counts is 9mm & 5.56mm. That’s all anyone seriously cares about. Don’t you read the gunzines? :cool:
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
It’s because revolvers are dead, .38 is dead, .357 is only barely alive in Sub-Compact carry guns - and only uneducated troglodytes carry those - and .44 is only any good at maximum charge or beyond. The only data that counts is 9mm & 5.56mm. That’s all anyone seriously cares about. Don’t you read the gunzines? :cool:
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I'll take my antiquated cartridges and go sit in the corner where I belong. :)
 
crestoncowboy said:
Idk. Of all the cartridges reload I've found 44 mag has the widest discrepancies. Sometimes a max Load in one book is 4 or 5 grains over the next even in later books that actually tested pressure.
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Did the high charge list pressure in cup and the lower in psi. They both have limits in Sammi spec but that shift would make sense with the trends I've seen. I'm curious what the old Keith loads would have tested at today.
 
daverich4 said:
This is the Lyman load I mentioned in my previous post as being another load that was clearly wrong as far as velocity. This is from Lyman 51 but it’s been in every version for the last 30 years or so. No need to use a chronograph, touch one off like I did in the late 80’s expecting a light load and you’ll know it’s a misprint. View attachment 1120347
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Where were probably like my brother. I told him it was the accuracy load of 800X. He thought it was going to be mild. The accuracy load was also the max.:). I about died laughing.
 
Bfh_auto said:
Where were probably like my brother. I told him it was the accuracy load of 800X. He thought it was going to be mild. The accuracy load was also the max.:). I about died laughing.
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I find a lot of max loads that are the best that aren't exactly crazy. 3.4 grains of red dot in 38 and the cfe max load in 38 was also the best. In low pressure cartridges max is barely enough to start clean up.
 
AJC1 said:
I find a lot of max loads that are the best that aren't exactly crazy. 3.4 grains of red dot in 38 and the cfe max load in 38 was also the best. In low pressure cartridges max is barely enough to start clean up.
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I hear you. I've found max in Hornady manuals is generally where I find my accurate load with ball powders. I don't jump straight to it. But it's usually where I end.
In a 4 5/8 barreled 44 mag max will definitely let you know it went off.
 
Bfh_auto said:
I hear you. I've found max in Hornady manuals is generally where I find my accurate load with ball powders. I don't jump straight to it. But it's usually where I end.
In a 4 5/8 barreled 44 mag max will definitely let you know it went off.
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When data is provide I test the entire range including +p. I have yet to find a better meaning more accurate load that is +p. I figured I might but haven't yet.
 
AJC1 said:
Did the high charge list pressure in cup and the lower in psi. They both have limits in Sammi spec but that shift would make sense with the trends I've seen. I'm curious what the old Keith loads would have tested at today.
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Really no rhyme or reason. I have 6 or 8 books and they just jump all over the place.

As far as the old 44 special loads Keith and Skeeter bragged about. 250 gr at 1200...... they were well over any spec ever speced. Lol. Had to be.
 
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