Worth the trouble to ream a cylinder?

[BLU]

My Ruger Vaquero .45 Colt has a cylinder throat measurement of .451. The bore measures .4525. I'd like to know if anyone else that has a Vaquero, with similar dimensions, has had their cylinder throats reamed, (to .4525). If so, do you think it's worth the cost to ream a cylinder? In answering that question, please cover whether or not accuracy notably increased, whether or not jacketed or lead boolits were used, (I cast my own at .452) and finally... did you send it out or did you DIY. I'm considering going the DIY route, (I'm handy that way.) I know of at least one shooting buddy that needs his .45 cylinder done too so I see the tools eventually paying for themselves.

 

[BobWright]

I had a .45 ACP cylinder reamed to .452". Otherwise the cartridges wouldn't chamber to full depth.

Bob Wright

 

[Varminterror]

Yup. I do bunches of them. Pay to have it done, unless you have 4 or more revolvers to do of the same cartridge.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

My Ruger Vaquero .45 Colt has a cylinder throat measurement of .451. The bore measures .4525. I'd like to know if anyone else that has a Vaquero, with similar dimensions, has had their cylinder throats reamed, (to .4525). If so, do you think it's worth the cost to ream a cylinder? In answering that question, please cover whether or not accuracy notably increased, whether or not jacketed or lead boolits were used, (I cast my own at .452) and finally... did you send it out or did you DIY. I'm considering going the DIY route, (I'm handy that way.) I know of at least one shooting buddy that needs his .45 cylinder done too so I see the tools eventually paying for themselves.

My first thought was, are you now having accuracy problems or do you want to ream the cylinder just because you know it's smaller? If you're not having accuracy problems I would leave it be.

 

[98Redline]

If you plan on shooting any cast bullets you would do well to have the cylinder reamed. Those tight throats will swage down the bullet and cause them to the bore in short order.
Jacketed will not be bad, but I doubt you will get the accuracy potential out of the gun with those tight cylinder throats.

 

[Varminterror]

How do you know if you have an accuracy problem? If your bullet has to expand from the throat to the bore, you only know how well it shoots in that "less than ideal" condition. If you fix that issue, most likely it will shoot better since you'll have less disturbance of the bullet (with less potential for variability). If the diameter cascade is not downhill, it IS broken. Whether the degree of the problem is important to you is a personal decision. I would counter - if it shoots well with a dimensional imperfection, just think of how great it would shoot if you fixed it!?!?!?!

 

[BLU]

Varminterror: Your last sentence, (specifically after the last comma), is precisely what's driving me nuts! It's an okay shooter. It has a 3.75" barrel and it certainly doesn't produce the huge hole I can create with my 6.5" S&W 25 but I feel it could be a bit better. (If I shot the target to the left of mine at 25M I'd know if I need to ream them. It's nothing obvious.)

This is what started my gears rolling: http://www.gunblast.com/Brownells_Reamer.htm

 

[Tinman357]

Yes. Emphatically. I had similar tight throats. The reamer isnt that expensive. Well worth it.

I'll sweeten the deal. Email me an address, I'll send you my reamer. Clean it well, use more oil than you think. Go slow. Don't turn it counter clockwise. Clean it well. Send it back. I'll pay to ship to you. You pay back. Better yet, have your buddy pay the shipping after you do his.

Go slow.

[email protected].

 

[Tinman357]

More info. If you really want to wring the most out of it without breaking the bank, and you have a good trigger.

Lightly re-cut the forcing cone and re-crown the muzzel. Night and day difference in mine.

 

[RealGun]

My Ruger Vaquero .45 Colt has a cylinder throat measurement of .451. The bore measures .4525. I'd like to know if anyone else that has a Vaquero, with similar dimensions, has had their cylinder throats reamed, (to .4525). If so, do you think it's worth the cost to ream a cylinder? In answering that question, please cover whether or not accuracy notably increased, whether or not jacketed or lead boolits were used, (I cast my own at .452) and finally... did you send it out or did you DIY. I'm considering going the DIY route, (I'm handy that way.) I know of at least one shooting buddy that needs his .45 cylinder done too so I see the tools eventually paying for themselves.

My Vaquero and Redhawk have both been reamed along with recutting forcing cones. And those are just the 45 Colts.

I wouldn't get hung up on the accuracy question. A fixed sight Vaquero is hardly a precision rifle and is typically not shot from a rest. If you are exceptionally steady and have a perfect trigger pull, you might be able to get some conclusive difference in groups. The real question is whether the gun gets fouled up when you shoot it. I hope I am recalling correctly that accuracy issues are more likely to come from oversized throats (.454). I have that dimension in my Ruger 45 convertible and bought some .454 bullets. The bore is not that large, so I am thinking about a new cylinder.

 

[walnut1704]

Never done a .45, but I've gone through so may .38/.357's I bought a reamer. It's pretty simple to do. No big deal.

The first time I did it I just rented a reamer from: http://4-dproducts.com/

 

[mavracer]

My first thought was, are you now having accuracy problems or do you want to dream the cylinder just because you know it's smaller? If you're not having accuracy problems I would leave it be.

It's worth doing if for nothing else it cuts leading down drastically, but in my case at least on 2 of my 3 guns I've done accuracy improved too. My old 7.5" bisley went from 2 to 2 1/2" groups at 25 to sub 1"

 

[Vern Humphrey]

My first thought was, are you now having accuracy problems or do you want to dream the cylinder just because you know it's smaller? If you're not having accuracy problems I would leave it be.

Exactly. Shoot the gun first, with both cast and jacketed bullets. If it shoots well, leave it alone.

However, given the dimensions you have reported, it will probably not show well, especially with cast bullets. In that case, I would have it reamed to about .005" over bore diameter.

 

[fireman 9731]

If improperly sized throats are so common, why do they keep leaving the factory like that?

 

[Sam1911]

If improperly sized throats are so common, why do they keep leaving the factory like that?

A) They don't cause nearly so many problems with jacketed bullets as with lead, and FAR, far, far more people shoot jacketed than lead so they complaints are relatively few.
B) If they do cause leading with lead bullets, many shooters will just assume they have to get harder lead bullets or that "this gun just leads up" so they shoot jacketed instead, not knowing or thinking to check the throat diameters. So the complaints are relatively few.
C) Most shooters don't put enough rounds through the guns they buy to really be bothered by leading, and aren't good enough shots to realize that the accuracy of their revolvers should be better. So the complaints are relatively few.
D) Those that do know what to look for and how to fix it, and who shoot enough and well enough for it to annoy, generally just fix it themselves or send the cylinder to someone else who will. Sending it back to the factory will often just get you "it's within spec." Which it is, because ... see A, B, and C.

 

[RealGun]

If improperly sized throats are so common, why do they keep leaving the factory like that?

They dodge the issue by advising against use of lead bullets. You really do need a different gun for optimal accuracy with each bullet type/dimension. If oversize throats like the .454 on my 45 Convertible NM Blackhawk are supposedly harmful to accuracy with the more typical .452 lead bullet for 45 Colt or 45 ACP, you would think that would be true with the smaller jacketed bullets as well.

 

[walnut1704]

If improperly sized throats are so common, why do they keep leaving the factory like that?

They are interested in production. Tools wear, so they start tight and end up loose, then they replace the tooling. Replacing tooling is expensive. Every manufacturer has their own standards, some more strict than others. The whole question is what's their minimum standard and what's the maximum.

I've gauged a lot of .38 / .357 cylinders. Outside of modern Colt and S&W's it's a crap shoot. Rugers are definitely a bit more...lenient?...and Taurus is just all over the place. In my experience the best manufacturers are +- .001 and the worst are +-.004. That's a huge spread, percentage wise. The smart ones go tight, because you can't fix overbore other than replacing the cylinder. I speculate Taurus likes to overbore throats to reduce pressures.

But from a practical standpoint I can tell you that most casual shooters couldn't tell the difference between a Python and a Taurus as far as accuracy goes.

 

[RealGun]

They are interested in production. Tools wear, so they start tight and end up loose, then they replace the tooling. Replacing tooling is expensive. Every manufacturer has their own standards, some more strict than others. The whole question is what's their minimum standard and what's the maximum.

I've gauged a lot of .38 / .357 cylinders. Outside of modern Colt and S&W's it's a crap shoot. Rugers are definitely a bit more...lenient?...and Taurus is just all over the place. In my experience the best manufacturers are +- .001 and the worst are +-.004. That's a huge spread, percentage wise. The smart ones go tight, because you can't fix overbore other than replacing the cylinder. I speculate Taurus likes to overbore throats to reduce pressures.

But from a practical standpoint I can tell you that most casual shooters couldn't tell the difference between a Python and a Taurus as far as accuracy goes.

I am thinking all that is too cynical and is full of various prejudices. The gun manufacturers are surely going to want to minimize returns and repairs and will avoid ridiculous claims of something way off being "in spec". I don't know that I would buy current production from any of them, but I can say my most notably accurate gun is a vintage Taurus. My gunsmith, who is a far better shot than I am, says it shoots one-hole groups (44 Special 441).

I would be respectful of a gunsmith's experience, but I don't find any of the number of guns I have owned to have throats too tight for jacketed bullets. I do have the one that is the old .454 for 45 Colt, but the rest simply are not designed to accommodate lead bullet diameters in any optimal way. Having throats and forcing cones redone is really a matter of routine.

 

[mavracer]

OP where are you located? iffin you aint far from Wichita Ks I'll let you use my reamer.

 

[walnut1704]

I am thinking all that is too cynical and is full of various prejudices. The gun manufacturers are surely going to want to minimize returns and repairs and will avoid ridiculous claims of something way off being "in spec". I don't know that I would buy current production from any of them, but I can say my most notably accurate gun is a vintage Taurus. My gunsmith, who is a far better shot than I am, says it shoots one-hole groups (44 Special 441).

I would be respectful of a gunsmith's experience, but I don't find any of the number of guns I have owned to have throats too tight for jacketed bullets. I do have the one that is the old .454 for 45 Colt, but the rest simply are not designed to accommodate lead bullet diameters in any optimal way. Having throats and forcing cones redone is really a matter of routine.

I'm only speaking of my own experience using inside pin gauges to check cylinder throats on multiple examples from multiple manufacturers. That's just fact. Others may have a different opinion from the ones they've seen. We're all dealing with relatively small samples. Age of the revolvers in question can also be a factor. I've also only done this on .38/.357 guns. I've checked a lot of revolvers and I've certainly seen Taurus revolvers that are perfect. If you feel forming an opinion based on your one example is warranted then that's up to you.

 

[BLU]

Tinman357... I appreciate the kind offer... I really do.

mavracer... I appreciate your offer as well. I'm temporarily in Central Illinois. :-(

A lot of gr8 advice here. The Vaquero is not a target gun but since I primarily make my own bullets and shoot all of my guns expecting the best accuracy I can get, I'll probably buy the tools. (I'm considering opening up a gun business anyway.) But, hey... thanks for the mention of the .38's & .357's. Now I've got to go check those too! :-{

 

[Tinman357]

 

[ThomasT]

My buddy and I both bought ruger SP-101 32 mag revolvers many years ago. They both had undersized throats of .310 with .312 bores. Neither one shot lead bullets worth a hoot. I bought a .313 reamer and reamed them both and it did improve both lead and jacketed accuracy. It is worth doing or having it done.

 

[fireman 9731]

I have a model 36 with very tight throats. I don't recall the exact measurements but it was significantly tighter than all of my other 38/357 guns. Then I measured a Taurus and it was wide open. Out of round too. That one found a new home.

I shoot 95% lead... The model 36 might get some attention with a reamer....

 

[RealGun]

I have a model 36 with very tight throats. I don't recall the exact measurements but it was significantly tighter than all of my other 38/357 guns. Then I measured a Taurus and it was wide open. Out of round too. That one found a new home.

I shoot 95% lead... The model 36 might get some attention with a reamer....

I have a nickel-plated 36-1 also with tight throats. I just bought .357 lead for it (Xtreme), choosing not to disrupt something in near collector condition. Plated should work too. I have a 19-4 that had a similar condition, but for its 357 Magnum I did finally go ahead and have the throats and forcing cone done.