oneounceload
member
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/thinktank/Would-be-killers-target-gun-free-zones.html
Surprising to see this in a Philly paper, but finally some truth:
Surprising to see this in a Philly paper, but finally some truth:
Would-be killers target gun-free zones
- Thread starter oneounceload
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That's by John Lott.
danez71
Member
......Except that's it's not true.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...TQnARg&usg=AFQjCNHYI5rZWAW272j2D8kx8c4ahrS5uw
Let's see..... just to name a few.
AZ Gabby Gifford
Streets in OK in 2012
Streets in FL in 2010
In a residence in FL in 2010
Streets of PA in 2012
.... every weekend in Chicago
Just recently at a residence and then the streets in CA
Parking lot of Walmart in NC 2013
Hialeah Apartment in FL in 2013 - 6 dead
The report lists: OPEN SPACE, 9.4% (15)
He must be using another definition of days mass shootings.
I do agree that it's overwhelmingly GFZ but want he wrote doesn't even really pass the straight fave test IMO.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...TQnARg&usg=AFQjCNHYI5rZWAW272j2D8kx8c4ahrS5uw
Let's see..... just to name a few.
AZ Gabby Gifford
Streets in OK in 2012
Streets in FL in 2010
In a residence in FL in 2010
Streets of PA in 2012
.... every weekend in Chicago
Just recently at a residence and then the streets in CA
Parking lot of Walmart in NC 2013
Hialeah Apartment in FL in 2013 - 6 dead
The report lists: OPEN SPACE, 9.4% (15)
He must be using another definition of days mass shootings.
I do agree that it's overwhelmingly GFZ but want he wrote doesn't even really pass the straight fave test IMO.
alsaqr
Member
Would be mass murderers care less that someone in the crowd is armed. Most mass murderers commit suicide or killed by police; dying is part of the game. It's about the publicity and the reputation that goes with having murdered large numbers of folks.
BTW: Umpqua Community College is not a "gun free zone". Folks pack on that campus.
http://justtom.com/media/story/9240...s-following-oregon-community-college-shooting
Mass murderers target malls, schools, theaters, etc. because large number of people are present. No self respecting would be mass murderer would set up at a country crossroads.
BTW: Umpqua Community College is not a "gun free zone". Folks pack on that campus.
http://justtom.com/media/story/9240...s-following-oregon-community-college-shooting
Mass murderers target malls, schools, theaters, etc. because large number of people are present. No self respecting would be mass murderer would set up at a country crossroads.
except it IS true when you read carefully:
keywords are PUBLIC and MASS....and I bet if you really analyzed the data you would find that almost all of the more calculated/planned mass shootings happen in gun free zones. its as simple as fluid dynamics....these psychos always take the path of least resistance; even when they have a death wish. IMO, these are distinctly different from the much more common Domestic Violence-Turned-Mass Murder situations since they are not planned in advance and usually start inside a residence. Sadly, I don't think we can ever stop people from popping-their-tops inside their homes and having it spill out into the public. These sort of shooters are usually suicidal by the time it turns public shooting and I doubt they are worried about things like gun free zones or potential law enforcement.
Why don't places like schools/etc hire a bunch of "marshals" like we do for commercial airliners? Just like on flights, would-be passengers have no idea if/when there's a marshal on the plane and this has proven itself to be a great deterrent. Colleges/Universities could easily do the same thing, maybe offer free tuition for LEOs and just have them packing at all times(without being identified)....just make it VERY public knowledge that there are a bunch of marshals on campus or at the movie theaters, etc.
keywords are PUBLIC and MASS....and I bet if you really analyzed the data you would find that almost all of the more calculated/planned mass shootings happen in gun free zones. its as simple as fluid dynamics....these psychos always take the path of least resistance; even when they have a death wish. IMO, these are distinctly different from the much more common Domestic Violence-Turned-Mass Murder situations since they are not planned in advance and usually start inside a residence. Sadly, I don't think we can ever stop people from popping-their-tops inside their homes and having it spill out into the public. These sort of shooters are usually suicidal by the time it turns public shooting and I doubt they are worried about things like gun free zones or potential law enforcement.
Why don't places like schools/etc hire a bunch of "marshals" like we do for commercial airliners? Just like on flights, would-be passengers have no idea if/when there's a marshal on the plane and this has proven itself to be a great deterrent. Colleges/Universities could easily do the same thing, maybe offer free tuition for LEOs and just have them packing at all times(without being identified)....just make it VERY public knowledge that there are a bunch of marshals on campus or at the movie theaters, etc.
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Deanimator
Member
And why wouldn't they?
They want to kill and terrorize, not BE killed BEFORE they can kill and terrorize others.
Getting your head blown off before you can kill more than one or two people kind of defeats the obvious purpose of most of these mass murderers.
If they wanted to die without killing anybody else, they'd just stay home and put a gun in their own mouths, or point a toy gun at a cop.
Needless to say, the anti-gun cult plays directly into their intentions by WILLINGLY providing them with large concentrations of helpless, unarmed victims, incapable of fighting back in any effective way. By now, they can't says they don't know the consequences.
They want to kill and terrorize, not BE killed BEFORE they can kill and terrorize others.
Getting your head blown off before you can kill more than one or two people kind of defeats the obvious purpose of most of these mass murderers.
If they wanted to die without killing anybody else, they'd just stay home and put a gun in their own mouths, or point a toy gun at a cop.
Needless to say, the anti-gun cult plays directly into their intentions by WILLINGLY providing them with large concentrations of helpless, unarmed victims, incapable of fighting back in any effective way. By now, they can't says they don't know the consequences.
danez71
Member
No. It isn't.
If you actually read what I linked... or at least just page 13, youd see that "9.4% Open Space" doesn't include 'residences', or parking lots of hospitals schools etc etc.
If we want to prove our point we must be factual.
We must stop perpetuating false info otherwise we will be made fun of just like we do to the antis that make stuff up and cite false statistics.
That only hurts us in the long run.
IWAC
Member
Actually, "Gun-free zone" was an error, perpetuated by the media! Then, the information proctologists swooped in and cried "WRONG! That fact is wrong, mistaken, misconstrued, So It ALL is in error!" Woe is us, the sky is falling!
The deal is that an armed, trained person, willing to use a firearm could have ended the shooting, IF they had been close enough, BUT the fellow that commented about possibly being mistaken for the murderer by the SWAT team had a valid point too.
The point being that legally armed citizens can and have stopped attacks, and will in the future, but sometimes, it just doesn't work out.
The deal is that an armed, trained person, willing to use a firearm could have ended the shooting, IF they had been close enough, BUT the fellow that commented about possibly being mistaken for the murderer by the SWAT team had a valid point too.
The point being that legally armed citizens can and have stopped attacks, and will in the future, but sometimes, it just doesn't work out.
When I said usually starts in a residence/etc....I wasn't referring to exactly inside a privately owned home.
what I was really trying to get at is the difference between mass shootings that are coldly-calculated & planned months in advance....and the shootings that usually spill over from something else and were NOT planned ahead of time.
i dont have time to review all the data right now, but I have a strong hunch you will find very few *planned* mass shootings that did NOT occur in a GFZ.
to me there is a big difference in a mass shooting where maybe someone is leaving a night club and gets punked-out in front of a bunch of people...so he grabs his gun like a coward and shoots up the crowd as he's leaving. I'm sure if he ended up injuring/killing "X" amount of people it would qualify as a "mass shooting" for statistical purposes. However, I think the distinction is pretty clear. When most people are discussing a "mass shooting" they are almost always referring to seemingly unprovoked, pre-planned assaults on what are essentially "random" locations.
Again, I feel this is different from mass-shootings at the workplace etc, where maybe the guy gets fired and shows up the next morning with a gun e....again my major distinction being whether the gunman was able to "choose" the location. BTW, I'm gonna go out on a limb here, but I'm guessing there are exponentially more areas/locations that DO allow guns than there are GFZs in the USA. I doubt any of the studies accounted for this. A purely random distribution of mass shootings would inherently favor locations that DO allow guns(by a very wide margin)....yet we actually see the opposite is true.
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