Top 10 dumb reasons gun free zones are good

[swifteagle]

In another thread I linked to an on-line debate about gun free zones being hosted on current.com. In it and other on-line debates I've heard a lot of sorry excuses listed as reasons gun free zones are a good thing. Help me make a list of the top ten most retarded reasons gun free zone proponents list for explaining why gun free zones are a good thing. Here are a few I've seen:

7) More guns on campus would just add more fuel to the fire & cause additional gun violence.
6) If we allow everyone to have guns than violence rates would jump sky high.
5) If people are allowed to carry guns than every silly fight or argument would result in bloodshed.
4) If people have guns to defend themselves from a mass shooter than another student might get hurt in the cross fire.
3) If Police arrive at an active shooter scene & find two or more people with guns they'll be too confused and will not know what to do.
2) If everyone is allowed to bring guns on campus there would be a lot of negligent discharges killing lots of students.

And the number one dumbest reason I've heard so far is:
1) If we allow people to bring guns to school than it would lead to more mass shootings.

 

[The Unknown User]

I like the whole "We need pencils, not guns" argument.

 

[Kind of Blued]

Those pretty much seem like the same reason, reworded. I think these should be blatantly sarcastic and cutting. Some of the antis that I've encountered are ignorant enough to take any of your reasons as "fact".

The sarcasm present should be obvious enough to make even the dimmest folks go "Wait, wuh?"

1) Any potential mass killer who plans on killing innocent people followed by suicide will be dissuaded due to the misdemeanor or felony which they would be charged with if they fail to successfully kill themselves.

2) If students with legal concealed weapons on campus offer resistance against a mass-killer, they might kill him before he is able to kill any innocent people. Universities are places of education to build futures; one death is one too many.

Those aren't very eloquent, but you get my point.

 

[Coronach]

7) More guns on campus would just add more fuel to the fire & cause additional gun violence.

If by that you mean that more campus gunmen might be shot by their would-be victims, I suspect you may be correct. I also suspect this is a good thing.

6) If we allow everyone to have guns than violence rates would jump sky high.

Except that they aren't sky-high in places that currently allow CC on campus, and they somehow keep failing to jump sky-high in places that decide to allow CC. I keep waiting for blood to run in the streets, and confound it if it doesn't keep failing to happen.

5) If people are allowed to carry guns than every silly fight or argument would result in bloodshed.

Again, darned if reality doesn't live up to the theory in places where CC is legal.

4) If people have guns to defend themselves from a mass shooter than another student might get hurt in the cross fire.

As opposed to just getting killed in the actual fire?

3) If Police arrive at an active shooter scene & find two or more people with guns they'll be too confused and will not know what to do.

Right. They'll just suddenly stop in their tracks like Star Trek androids and smoke will shoot out of their ears. "TOO MANY GUNS...DOES NOT COMPUTE...ERROR...ERROR!"

Now, is it possible that a CCer might be shot by a cop responding to a shooting? Of course. The confusion of the moment cannot be overstated. But if the choice is being shot for sure by a gunman and being shot MAYBE by the cops when they show up, gee, I think I know which option I'd choose, especially when I can directly influence the likelihood of the second happening (by doing little things like putting the gun down).

2) If everyone is allowed to bring guns on campus there would be a lot of negligent discharges killing lots of students.

They go off like popcorn, I tell you. That's why police stations are so dangerous.

And the number one dumbest reason I've heard so far is:
1) If we allow people to bring guns to school than it would lead to more mass shootings.

Right, because so many homicidal maniacs are deterred by the risk of expulsion and criminal prosecution after they complete their suicidal plan.

This all makes perfect sense. Really.

Mike

 

[Nasty]

I like gun free zones...I figure that they make me one of the better armed guys around.

Oh...you mean if I *had* to follow the rules...

...nevermind.

 

[swifteagle]

Yes the pencils not guns argument was a strong one indeed :banghead:

 

[trinydex]

can we spell then correctly first?

also, aren't cc'ers who respond to a threat the first to drop their weapon when the authorities come? c'mon now... let's be realistic at least....

 

[swifteagle]

Thanks for the correction trinydex. I accidentally used than instead of then, my mistake, my English teacher would have subtracted several points for that error!

than –conjunction
1. (used, as after comparative adjectives and adverbs, to introduce the second member of an unequal comparison): She's taller than I am.

then –adverb
1. at that time: Prices were lower then.
2. immediately or soon afterward: The rain stopped and then started again.
3. next in order of time: We ate, then we started home.

As for being realistic - these are ridiculous, not realistic. To be realistic the excuses would need to be based on facts rather than emotion.

 

[BruceRDucer]

"I like the whole "We need pencils, not guns" argument."---Rob 87

Do Administrators recommend #1, #2, or #3 Pencils???

I like those Eberhard Faber. They sharpen quicker and have great balance in the hand.

 

[Werewolf]

Do Administrators recommend #1, #2, or #3 Pencils???

Depends on whether they want the lead to obturate and how much penetration and expansion they're looking for.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

"Students with concealed carry on campus wouldn't know who the bad guy is and probably shoot innocents." - Anti-Gunner

Hmmm......the bad guy could be the one shooting all of the students hiding under desks.

 

[dmazur]

The most ridiculous argument I've heard for gun-free zones is simply -

"We'll adopt a policy of no guns allowed and put up signs and then there won't be any guns on campus. This will prevent further shootings."

Sometimes it's couched in more elaborate bureaucratese or legalese (depending on whether it's an administrator or a legislator involved in the creative writing exercise...), but the end result is essentially as stated above.

I've asked a couple of people, who have basically said the above following recent shootings, "How does the gun-free zone prevent further violence?"

I've never received a lucid reply. Restatement. Argument. But never yet a single rational explanation of how the policy/law is going to prevent further shootings by a BG who obviously doesn't care about breaking laws.

 

[fearless leader]

I have heard the idea that having a gun in a normally gun free zone, particularly a college campus, introduces a level of leathality to confrontations that wouldn't ordinarily be there. College kids aren't always skilled in social behavior, and occaisionally get into confrontations, sometimes to fisticuffs, perhaps over a girl or something. It's a complex environment.

This may have some merit, although I'm not sure how much, if any. It depends on the individual's mind set. College students are also experiencing freedoms not always offered to them at home, therefore some, against their better judgement, may opt to carry while experimenting with alcohol or mind altering substances. A reasonable, prudent person would not behave this way, particularly while armed, but not everyone is reasonable or prudent. I could see some peoples cause for alarm.

A student, armed with a deadly weapon, may instinctively use that weapon rather than engaging in what would have ordinarily been a minor breech of the peace, like a fist fight.

People raised watching TV thinking "Guns = Bad", that weren't raised around guns and people with hopolphobia will naturally be scared of the worst.

I don't necessarily agree with them, but I see their point.

What they don't understand is someone of a mind to slaughter them will bring the guns or worse anyway, as a person Hell bent on murder doesn't give a hoot about a gun free zone, as we have seen.

 

[swifteagle]

I've heard many variations of that argument too. Basically the argument is that having a gun will lead to a gunfight in what otherwise would have only been a fist fight.

There are several problems with that argument:

1) Nobody can point to a single incident of that happening although there are millions of CCW permit holders across the US who are anywhere from 18 & up to 21 & up depending on the State. If it were to ever happen you can bet our liberal media would make it front page headline news country wide - I could see it now "CCW permit holder picks fight with unarmed student - then shoots him". I think the lack of that type of headline is largely due to the fact that people who carry are aware of their increased responsibility & will go out of their way to avoid a fight.

2) The same students can already get a CCW permit & carry everywhere else they go other than on campus so why would they be more likely to go berserk the moment they step back onto campus when they behaved just fine off campus? I'd venture to guess that most students don't hang out on campus 24x7 - most probably spend a lot of time visiting off site locations such as shopping malls, restaurants, shooting ranges, or dance clubs.

3) If someone attacks a student with only fists, knives, clubs, or bar stools it can still easily lead to a life long coma or death. Real life is not like the movies where a body can be kicked & clubbed for hours on end with no negative results other than a few bruises. If a student is attacked by one or more people who just want to club him or her to death they should be allowed to have the ability to pull out their gun & shoot the attacker to stave off serious bodily harm & possibly death. Unfortunately in most States students are denied the ability to carry a weapon to defend themselves while they are on campus.

4) Utah schools allow concealed carry and there are some schools in Colorado that allow it as well. None of these incidents yet.

5) We allow people to join the military at age 18 & trust them with tanks, shoulder launched rockets, handguns, M16's, and fighter jets, yet they seem to be getting along just fine.

 

[Crunker1337]

"If Police arrive at an active shooter scene & find two or more people with guns they'll be too confused and will not know what to do."

Easy, you don't open fire on anyone not a threat, and order them to drop/lower their weapons.

 

[Coronach]

Easy, you don't open fire on anyone not a threat, and order them to drop/lower their weapons.

That's about the best you can hope for, but try it some time in force on force. It's pretty dicey for all involved (for the cops if the guy with the gun is a BG, and the guy with the gun if the cops are aware of just how fast someone who is "not a threat" can become one). There's no really good answer to this problem in the chaos of a school shooting.

Mike

 

[swifteagle]

Yep. According to FBI statistics most gun fights last less than 20 seconds so the likelihood of Police arriving at the exact time an active gun fight is going on is slim. Much more likely to find either everything over with the concealed carry student victorious, or the concealed carry student down on the ground with all of the other victims.

Even if Police were to arrive & find 2 or more people with guns they'd simply follow normal protocols - order them both to drop their gun. The bad guy will be the one who either shoots himself, runs, or starts shooting at the Police. The concealed carry student will obey Police orders. Police are already trained on how to deal with unknowns with weapons - they run into that type of situation any time they see an undercover or off duty officer with a gun such as what happened at the Utah Trolley Square mall where officers arrived while an off duty officer was still engaged in a gun fight with the mall shooter.

 

[coloradokevin]

Quote:
3) If Police arrive at an active shooter scene & find two or more people with guns they'll be too confused and will not know what to do.

Right. They'll just suddenly stop in their tracks like Star Trek androids and smoke will shoot out of their ears. "TOO MANY GUNS...DOES NOT COMPUTE...ERROR...ERROR!"

Now, is it possible that a CCer might be shot by a cop responding to a shooting? Of course. The confusion of the moment cannot be overstated. But if the choice is being shot for sure by a gunman and being shot MAYBE by the cops when they show up, gee, I think I know which option I'd choose, especially when I can directly influence the likelihood of the second happening (by doing little things like putting the gun down).

I nearly choked on my crumb cake when my wife read this one to me.

Quote:
2) If everyone is allowed to bring guns on campus there would be a lot of negligent discharges killing lots of students.

They go off like popcorn, I tell you. That's why police stations are so dangerous.

Spit the milk I was drinking on my dog when she read this one.


Guns and eating are dangerous together! In fact, I might be tempted to develop a list of reasons why guns should be banned in cafeterias!

 

[Cmdr. Gravez0r]

2) If everyone is allowed to bring guns on campus there would be a lot of negligent discharges killing lots of students.

Because guns go off if you look at them the wrong way--just like in the movies.

 

[Hashshashin]

I have a concealed weapons permit but that doesn't extend to my campus but I still carry non-the-less. It's very well concealed & no one knows that I do, but the way I look at it is if someone tries coming into a classroom I am in or near & starts shooting I will fire back. I'd rather spend 4-7 in a 10x10 cell in prison than spend the rest of eternity 6 feet under...but then again thats just my humble opinion.

 

[Cato the Roman]

Be careful with the pencils! In an emergency one may get the idea to sharpen it and use a rubber band as a makeshift bow and arrow, oops they'll find a way to outlaw that too.

 

[packnrat]

murders like gun free zones to do there killing....


when was the last time there was a shooting spree at a gun range??


lots of guns around? nobody gets killed. strange is it not?

 

[dmazur]

I've also heard the "Guns on campus will be a problem because the students are going to be drunk, high, etc." argument. By the time the student is 21, he's darn near graduating. If he's managed to keep a clean record, the state issues him a CCW license. If he's a party clown, he may have already lost his right to CCW. I don't see how being on campus should deprive him of something he's allowed to do off-campus. (Where the best parties are, anyway!)

 

[Jiggle]

I am a sudent and have been on several college campuses. I still have not seen any of these arguments that turn into fistfights, and could potentially turn into shootings. Don't get me wrong, I've seen fights. But none of these occured on campus. I just am failing to see the outrageous and dangerous behavior that supposedly fills the life of all college students.

 

[woodybrighton]

10 its against the law to take a gun into a gun free zone nobody would break that law oh wait oh dear
9 because its against the law to take a gun on campus everybody will feel that much safer no that doesn't seem to work in practice

8 only gun nuts want to carry a gun and they should'nt be allowed to.
possibly true but as the law does not stop armed nutters from going on a killing spree. Why not let somebody who has gone to the trouble of getting a ccw carry? proves they are not a nutter.

7 people would be scared of other students with guns
ccw holders are not spree killers and concealed carry means concealed i.e. you can't see it.
6 fights turning into gun battles CCW holders do not regularly stage duels or gunfights to settle matters (except in texas). anyway bringing back the tradition of duelling would help make campus life that much more polite
5 guns make loud noises and scare me
ccw holders won't be shooting guns on campus
4 the police can deal with problems no they won't there turn up and cart the bodies away
3 I don't like guns I don't like veggieburgers get over it
2 guns kill people true so does giving a maniac a large area where nobody else is supposed to be armed. unless the campus is going to have a big fence round with armed guards and searches on the way in way out. posting signs saying please don't bring a gun on to the campus mr armed maniac is wishful thinking
1 only right wing red necks want guns why should nasty conservatives be allowed on campus.
Something called freedom of expression perhaps? Or just maybe if you can prise these weirdos away from guns and ammo they might read a proper book
with out pictures and become nice sensible liberals
10 rather stupid arguments. the joke about Texas was a joke get over it.