Would my ammo choice mean anything in court?

[bushmaster1313]

"Intent" is an element of almost all crimes.

Anything that could be used to sway a jury against the defendant could help the jury find intent

In NJ there are statutes against the use of hollow point bullets and a typical NJ jury could find it significant that the defendant loaded up with bullets known for their enhanced ability to kill

For example, the defendant hits an assailant with a third bullet as the assailant is staggering and about to fall. A zealous prosecutor would argue that the shooter was feloniously packing hollow points and that is evidence that he was cruising for a bruising and that his testimony of self defense should not be trusted

 

[Manco]

In NJ there are statutes against the use of hollow point bullets and a typical NJ jury could find it significant that the defendant loaded up with bullets known for their enhanced ability to kill

In general, a prosecutor can make anything sound bad. Depending on the circumstances, out of one corner of his mouth he could say that hollow-points are similar to the infamous and universally outlawed "dum-dum" bullets, which are so cruel and cause so much suffering that not even the military is allowed to use them, and out of the other corner he could say that FMJ bullets are dangerous military-style "assault" bullets that can pass through and kill several people at once, or conversely that they're so ineffective and lacking in stopping power that it forces one to put multiple rounds into a person just to incapacitate them, demonstrating the intent to cause needless suffering and death. None of these statements have to be consistent with the others or represent the truth in any way--they merely have to demonize the defendant and anything associated with him. One of my favorite examples of how this can be done with anything is a real (although it was intended for humor) description of the movie "The Wizard of Oz" in a newspaper TV listing: "Transported to a surreal landscape, a young girl kills the first person she meets and then teams up with three strangers to kill again."

 

[TomTerrific]

AFAIK Harold Fish was released from prison on 7/21/09 after Gov. Jan Brewer signed a retroactive castle doctrine bill on 7/13/09.

It appears to me he was released because his conviction was overturned.

How would the castle doctrine apply to a shooting on a trail?

 

[Guns and more]

If you are charged in a shooting, the prosecutor will try to get a conviction, that's his job.
He'll attempt to portray you as a crazed killer, lying in wait with "armor piercing bullets",
hoping to kill someone. It won't be true but it might sway the jury.

 

[Frank Ettin]

AFAIK Harold Fish was released from prison on 7/21/09 after Gov. Jan Brewer signed a retroactive castle doctrine bill on 7/13/09.

It appears to me he was released because his conviction was overturned.

You're correct, Tom.

Fish appealed his conviction. The Arizona court of appeals reversed his conviction because of a number of legal errors at trial and ordered a new trial. The Arizona Attorney General petitioned the Arizona Supreme Court to hear the case, overturn the decision of the court of appeals and reinstate Fish's conviction. The Arizona Supreme Court declined to hear the case.

The DA decided against re-trying Fish and dismissed the charges.

 

[alsaqr]

I didn't say that it will happen in every case. The point is that it did happen, and what has happened once can happen again.

Indeed it can happen again: All kinds of stuff can happen. In a NE county of OK, a man saw another man raping a woman: He intervened. The perp jumped into his car and tried to run over the good guy. The good guy killed the perp with a handgun. The prosecutor could not prosecute the good guy for the shooting but he charged the man with carrying a concealed handgun without a permit.

This happened prior to the OK stand your ground law. When the OK stand your ground law was written it specifically covered cases like the one above. In OK a shooter in a righteous self defense case cannot be prosecuted for carrying a concealed weapon without a permit.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Could the choice of carrying Ranger Talons cause me possible court issues?

In civil court your choice of underwear may even be scrutinized.

You're shooting to preserve life. If/when the time comes, the color of the ammo box matters not.

 

[Zoogster]

This is why you need the Pink Fluffy Bunny brand of ammunition.

"The most kind and soft way to stop an attacker."

"With our proprietary HUGS®™ technology each round is like giving a firm embrace to an attacker."

 

[MAC USMC]

A wise friend of mine works in high crime area rampant with car jackings, street robbery, etc. He keeps a baseball bat on his front seat along with a glove and baseball. He goes to a park and plays a little ball with his 6 year old son, then puts the gear back on the seat.

This provides the foundation for his explanation as to why the bat is on the seat when dealing with police officers, deputy districty attorneys, etc. He is prepared to "play hardball" when and if it is necessary and is has a legitimate reason for the bat in the car.

With expanding, top quality bullets in one's handgun I would expound on the inherent SAFETY factors of the bullet, i. e., will expand and not go a long distance and injure others. Do not offer up: " I bought it because it is a good man-stopper"; "It causes a lot of internal damage to organs". Such statements, in a courtroom setting, establish a particularly negative mind set with anticipation of using extreme violence when an opportunity arises. The stuff attorneys love to pounce on.

Info from a former homicide Detective Lieutenant in California.

 

[Shadow 7D]

I believe that a number of practicing lawyers posted on a similar thread that a procecuter may bring up anything, and a lawyer worth the money you are paying him would get the entier line thrown out, a simple awnser would be.

I carry this ammunition because these agencies have published reports on the effectiveness of this ammo and issue it to their POLICE (federal and otherwise) offices, surely sir you don't ask the police officers you interview if their ammo is cruel?

something to this effect, harold fish was also brought up as an example of where shutting up could have kept him out of jail. Quite honestly, a decent lawyer would shut down any line of questioning, truly though, is fatally wounding someone so they die slowing really very kind, F&G will try to take your license and your money if you don't track down a deer you wound...

 

[gun guy]

hollow point ammo for self defense weapons is widely carried. some manufacturers have toned down the name on the box for that reason. while it can be nit picked among experts, most hollow point/expanding ammo all performs with the same goal in mind, to create a larger wound channel, and do maximum tissue/organ damage. so are you less culpable because you loaded your weapon with fuzzy warm man stopper ammo vs the more sinister blood splatter specials, not really, the fact you have a gun is enough to begin with.

 

[tkopp]

Listen;
Bullets kill people. If a prosecutor wants to make hay about your choice of bullets, he isn't speaking rationally about bullet choice. He's making an emotional case about your character. You can do it with any caliber given a little creativity.

.22lr; The assassin's bullet of choice. More people have been killed by .22s than any other cartridge in America. Mr Defendant, you purchased your ammunition in packages of how many? 500 you say? Can you repeat that a little louder, I'm not sure everyone heard that. 500 rounds of ammunition at a time. Sometimes more! My Lord, Mr Defendant, after you shot Mr Victim to death, how many more people were you planning on murdering?

.32; A Saturday night special. Also known as a throw-away gun, made from zinc. Do you know why that is? So that it's so cheap to make, you can kill a man and just throw it away.

.380; A pocket pistol? Mr Defendant, if you weren't planning on doing anything wrong, why did you go to such lengths to hide what you were doing?

9mm; A seventeen round magazine? Mr Defendant, you killed Mr Victim with just four shots. When you chose this gun, how many people did you plan on murdering?

.45; A forty-five caliber pistol? Now that's a big gun, for a big man. Mr Defendant, did murdering Mr Victim make you feel like a big man?

Revolver, any non-magnum caliber; Mr Defendant, what happens to the brass when you shoot your revolver? That's right, it just stays put. You knew that when you chose to carry a revolver, did you not? You didn't plan on leaving any evidence of this murder behind, did you?

Revolver, any magnum caliber; A *magnum!* No sir, a normal gun just wasn't enough for you, was it? You needed somehing extra deadly. Now, I like Dirty Harry Calahan as much as the next fellow, but that kind of vigilantee justice is something best left on TV.

FMJ Ammo; A full metal jacket. Police don't carry these any more, did you know that? They're extra dangerous. Poke holes right through who you mean to hurt, kill people on the other side. They like to bounce off walls, windshields, go find innocent victims. But apparently you didn't care about any of that when you chose your ammunition. You didn't really care whom you hurt, did you Mr Defendant?

JHP Ammunition; A hollow point. These little guys, they just blow up when they hit a man. Expand to twice their size, come out the backside through a hole the size of an apple. That's not defensive ammunition, is it Mr Defendant? No, you paid extra. You wanted killing ammunition.

I could go on. It's bull hockey. All of it. Does that matter? It *can* be said. It *can* be rebutted. Or it might not. Just take some time, choose the best ammunition for you, and worry about the aftermath if there is one. Getting to the lawsuit means you survived whatever encounter you needed a gun for. Congradulations! Now your choice of ammo is the least of your worries.

 

[gun guy]

well i also have a really serious speargun for taking large groupers, etc. i always thought that might make for an interesting report. intruder found stuck to the door like a giant bug in a collection.

 

[Art Eatman]

Okay. Nothing new in this umpteenth iteration of this subject...