Would you be in your right to discharge your fire arm in this situation?

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Stover954rr

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Messages
209
Location
NY
Hello Everyone,

One of the thinnest lines armed citizens walk, is when you are in your right to discharge your fire arm.

If you were the guy in the car, how would you have handled this situation?

*****PROFANITY WARNING****
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-MmhPF9cDBc

I personally would have hit him with the car... maybe not the high road, but we aren't all perfect....
 
I personally would have hit him with the car... maybe not the high road, but we aren't all perfect....
Click to expand...

Hey, 230 gr at 1300 fps out of a .45 or 2000 pounds in an SUV at 35 mph, dead is dead. Self defense is exaclty that, and no apologies are necessary.
 
What a coincidence... I was literally thinking about this very video a few days ago and wondering if it would have been right to shoot the guy.

I think it would be legal... he's attacking a family with a crowbar. You could easily argue that you were in fear for your life.
 
This video has been discussed a lot... pretty simple, you're boxed in, he's whaling on your car and at least once or two/three times he approaches the driver's side with the metal bar and he's in attack mode. Bang one less criminal predator causing trouble. Shooting him might not be the best course of action but Mr. would-be-gangbanger easily crossed the line of giving the person in the car grounds to be in fear of life and limb.

This video caused me to evaluate how I drive in traffic when I saw it a few months ago. I ALWAYS leave about 1 to 1.5 car lengths in front of me just in case something like this comes up. With that much room I can get away, and if not get away, I have enough room to saw back and forth and make it harder for an attacker on foot. And maybe a chance to squish him like a bug if he won't go away, never mind if I have a defensive firearm.
 
It would have been a good shot for the driver, assuming the whole thing wasn't staged (a big assumption).

Trying to use a car for self defense is not a good idea unless it's there is no other choice. That doesn't mean she had to avoid running him over, just that running him over is no substitute for shooting him. Moreover, from a dead stop there's little chance should could have done more than bump him to the side.
 
If you're in your car and the other guy is on foot just squash him like a bug. A 21000000 grain car going 40fps has WAY more energy than a 230 grain bullet going 1000fps.
 
Assuming I was carrying (which since I'm in MD isn't bloody likely) I would have given him THREE warnings, including one specifically mentioning the use of deadly force if necessary. If he still presented a threat, I would have shot him. Assuming that attack was legit and not staged, I can't see how a jury anywhere would convict an individual if they shot the dude.
 
I think you could make a good legal argument that you were in the right if you shot at the guy. Especially when he came around to the driver's side window.

I think it would make more sense to park with one tire on him and call the cops though.

ETA: Krochus beat me to it.
 
I think you would be within your right to discharge if he had made threats toward the people inside, or had concentrated his attacks in one particular area. Going around the car like that shows no real indication to harm a person. Drawing would certainly be fine, but discharging? I doubt it.

Of course, you don't have to take the property abuse, either. YOu could very well park and step out of the vehicle to confront the attacker. And let me tell you, if a crazed guy like that stepped toward me with a crowbar raised, yer darn tootin' I'd fear for my life! Hell, I'm getting the creeps just thinking about someone coming toward me with a crowbar raised. In that case, let the lead fly.

Makes me consider keeping a crowbar handy, though, for when non-lethal force would be necessary. (I do not get happy when people beat on my car.)
 
Faimly in small SUV stuck in Traffic, Crazy guy who has beat the car pretty baddly with a crow bar leaveing many large dents, smashed windshield, broken rear window, broken window on passanger side, what apears to be a small child seated next to rear passanger window, no were to attempt to dulely retreat safely... I'd say that is justifiable homicide, but I ain't the DA or a lawyer.

Weather he got killed with the car or killed with a gun or killed by meteor, that dude should have been a pool of guts on the side of the road.

Exactly why I own; a cheap, reliable, high capacity, Beretta 92FS.
 
BlackBearME, I've got to disagree with you. If I was inside that car, I would have thought my life was in danger. He wasn't really moving around the car that much -- the car was trying to get away and he was reacting to it. He's violently bashing their car -- the blows are landing a foot or two away from people inside -- and he's shouting obscenities at them, egging them on. Windows are being broken out. I wouldn't have waited until he reached inside the vehicle or his crowbar connected with someone inside before it occurred to me that this was a life-threatening situation...

Also, I don't know that a crowbar is considered "non-lethal force."
 
Eh, I don't know. I just like to consider things from every angle (before it happens). In that situation, especially with my wife and child in the car, I'd definitely feel justified in dicharging my firearm. I'm postiive I would at least draw, and probably fire, especially when he started smashing in windows. The question asked was "would you be in your right" and there's a difference between what is within the right, and what I would/should/could do.

And as for a crowbar being considered "nonlethal" force, you're right, it could easily be lethal force. But law in Maine is generally "Equal Amount" and I could justify whacking him with a crowbar to a jury, much easier than shooting him.
 
YOu could very well park and step out of the vehicle to confront the attacker.
Click to expand...

I would question that idea. Do you put yourself in more danger so that you are more justified in using force?
 
This is the second time I have seen this vid and both times it has turned my stomach. He has a deadly weapon, is appoching my car door, and is combative...As much as I would hate to have to use deadly force, I believe that there would be no other choice being boxed in like that.
 
I would question that idea. Do you put yourself in more danger so that you are more justified in using force?
Click to expand...

As a general rule, no. I'm not out looking for a fight.

With a wife and kid in the car, if I thought it would draw harm away from them, absolutely. I can live with myself getting hurt, because I can do more to defend myself. I would be rather upset with myself if harm came to my daughter and I knew I could do more to prevent it. Obviously the best case scenario is drive away, then call the cops. But as was made clear from the video driving away wasn't really an option. Using the car as a weapon would be a potential option, but there's no room to get enough momentum to be effective here. If there were, the better bet would be to drive away. When I posted it I was thinking of defense of my family, but didn't articulate it.

And when I posted that In Re: property defense, I didn't necessarily mean that I would be stepping out in the hopes that he would elevate the confrontation to make deadly force justified. On the other hand, there's no reason that I have to stand by and be a victim and let him beat on my car.
 
I am new to all of this, but I think that common sense would dictate that you are justified in using your firearm on this idiot.

Not even speaking to the law, the "person" is coming at you, swinging a pry bar in a car with people in it. OK, this is not just property damage, this is an attack on the people inside. Let's face it... normal people do not act like this! Something is not right with this guy! The crowbar is deadly force, and capable of causing great harm or injury. Isn't this why we carry weapons?

If I were in the car, I think that there would be a correct way to do this. A loud shout, to "Get Away" would be first (Don't think that it would work.) Is there a way to drive away? If he gets caught in the driveaway, too bad. If there is not (as there wasn't in this situation, Drawing a firearm and showing him the round hole would be next. Obviously, this is the most severe action next to firing. This may be again met with "Get Away!" However, I would not give a huge amount of time at this stage, because if you have to draw the weapon, you are fully prepared to use it. Plus, you do not want him to lunge and possibly take the weapon, so definitely very little warning at this stage. If the attack did not stop, I would fire, shooting at center of mass, to stop the attack.

Now, as to the aftermath? Visible damage to the car, crowbar laying there that caused said damage, and probably a witness or two. I don't think that most juries would have a problem (even if you factor in the possible "racial" issues). I would venture that you might not even be charged.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I would feel that my life was in danger, with little way of escape. Even if I am a bystander, I would be compelled to try to come to their defense, as another person is in immediate danger.
 
i think from the moment the crowbar hit that car, the occupants of said car were under attack and i could swear i heard screams coming from inside the car, (windows smashing sending glass into where the people are.)
 
Last edited:
Being from Texas and home of the newly enacted "Castle Law" I would have blown him away and told the cops I was afraid for my life and felt threatened by his repeated attacks on my vehicle.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top