Would you be willing to...
- Thread starter Rail Driver
- Start date
- Status
First you've already made a mistake in awareness and previous training. Unless you are young and skilled ground fighting isn't for the average person. Depending on your handgun in that situation would put you at a disadvantage. You will be taken out of the fight while you're trying to bring your handgun into action. If you depend on a handgun only you're lost. You don't have to be a big bad trained fighter, a simple finger in his eye works wonders especially with the thumb under the chin as an example. Learn to use what you have and attack is always the best defense. You have two hands, feet, teeth and nothing is off limits. No sane person will waste time trying for one weapon with so many available. Good old WWII combat training is very simple to learn and deadly. Why shoot yourself, if you depend only on your handgun in your theoretical attack and want to "fight fair" you've lost. Nothing is off limits.
New here. My answer is NO. I believe it's a very bad move. Speaking from experience, grappling is always in a constant state of motion. Each person vying for a position so as to subdue there opponent. There is just to much motion to be able to pull off a good shot without risking serious damage to yourself. I agree with Ole Coot except for the statement he said about ground fighting being for the young and skilled. Having to be young is pure BS. Ground fighting is almost entirely skill. It's fun and anyone can learn it and it would save your life in this scenario in less than a couple of seconds. No gun needed.
Was told of a front seater that got hit (flying a Cobra) on a gun run in the shin. They were approximately 20 minutes to medical attention. He was dead on landing.
Shock is a funny thing and I would say depending on your blood sugar and internal chemistry for that day it might effect the final out come. What works one day may be different, as far as your body goes, the next day or time.
I am not a Doctor and if someone were on me fixing to saw some important piece of my body off then I would do whatever my snap judgement called for at the moment. Kinda like a revenge thing, "You are gonna kill me but I am gonna hurt you ** (M y F riend)
Shock is a funny thing and I would say depending on your blood sugar and internal chemistry for that day it might effect the final out come. What works one day may be different, as far as your body goes, the next day or time.
I am not a Doctor and if someone were on me fixing to saw some important piece of my body off then I would do whatever my snap judgement called for at the moment. Kinda like a revenge thing, "You are gonna kill me but I am gonna hurt you ** (M y F riend)
Having seen real world trauma, the answer is, "It depends", but I think I can safety say it is more than you'd see on the big screen.
That is what makes it so stunning when you hear about folks who have sawn off limbs to free themselves in the wilderness
If we are meaning a shoulder, then no way, if saving myself is the motive. There are far too many important bits in the shoulder; I may be killing myself, and there is no guarantee the bullet will reach the opponent with enough force to accomplish anything.
I will add my legs and feet to the list; I may need them to survive in the moments after the shot.
I will add my arms to the list; they are so skinny, I should be able to shoot around them.
That just leaves my support hand as the only possibly expendable part that I can think of at the moment. Assuming we are grappling, that hand is likely to be VERY busy at the moment, doing something VERY important. Do I really want to suddenly disable that hand?
So, while the needs of the many (collective body parts) may outweigh the needs of the few (one body part) at a moment in time, the likelihood of the sacrifice of one body part to save the rest of the body, when grappling with an opponent, and holding a gun, is pretty far out there.
Now, if I am in a situation where I am willing to die to save another person, such as a family member, and I am absolutely CERTAIN that I can shoot through myself to REALLY anchor the bad guy, so he cannot get to the one I am protecting, that is another story entirely.
I will add my legs and feet to the list; I may need them to survive in the moments after the shot.
I will add my arms to the list; they are so skinny, I should be able to shoot around them.
That just leaves my support hand as the only possibly expendable part that I can think of at the moment. Assuming we are grappling, that hand is likely to be VERY busy at the moment, doing something VERY important. Do I really want to suddenly disable that hand?
So, while the needs of the many (collective body parts) may outweigh the needs of the few (one body part) at a moment in time, the likelihood of the sacrifice of one body part to save the rest of the body, when grappling with an opponent, and holding a gun, is pretty far out there.
Now, if I am in a situation where I am willing to die to save another person, such as a family member, and I am absolutely CERTAIN that I can shoot through myself to REALLY anchor the bad guy, so he cannot get to the one I am protecting, that is another story entirely.
In a situation like that, an assisted or auto opening knife would be ideal....go for the femurs, as they will likely be sitting on you in this situation.
Remember, to a man with only a hammer, everything is a nail, to a man with a full toolbox, everything is what it is. Have all your tools about you.
Remember, to a man with only a hammer, everything is a nail, to a man with a full toolbox, everything is what it is. Have all your tools about you.
TimboKhan
Member
I cannot think of any situation in which injuring yourself so drastically would increase your chances of survival. You do understand that at contact distances your not just getting a quick piercing by a bullet, you are also getting a ton of hot gas and assorted debris blown into your body, right? You may or may not live. I believe that there is no "safe" place to get shot.
If you're on the ground getting beaten (such that your only perceivable option is "shoot through myself") and you're still in possession of a functional firearm and unexpended ammunition, I'm sorry, but ur doing it wrong.
Ground fighting is to be avoided for many reasons. While you're showing your joint locks and flopping around did you ever think the guy you are hugging might just have a friend who can dispatch you rather quickly. Single street attackers are rare, always a buddy to watch for cops or a little help while you are "occupied". I don't care how well you might have trained lesson No. 1 is stay on your feet and not compromise your defensive position. Space is always your friend, maintain it. No. 2 always assume he is not alone. It ain't fun getting stomped and going to ground should always be avoided. Get some practice, and if you live I might reconsider, and YES I will go to ground if necessary and it will end quickly but why roll around in the alley if it isn't necessary. I reckon people still bleed and die today like they did years ago. NO street fighter wants off his feet and if he or even an old guy like me has a blade you can bet you won't see it, only feel it first.
OP
OP
Alright, obviously a lot of you are ignoring the actual question... I wasn't worried about how to avoid the situation or how many mistakes I would have to make to get into that situation or any of that... My question was "would you or wouldn't you shoot in this specific situation". I asked in order to try and see if there could be any tactical value to such an action, and I still believe that in the right circumstances it can provide enough temporary tactical advantage to help end a fight if that advantage is capitalized on quickly enough.
But no worries. I still learned a few things, and heard a few opinions on the actual question I asked, which was cool. I think this thread has run it's course, as it seems to be going further and further off topic with each successive post. Thanks again for those of you that participated meaningfully to my thread.
But no worries. I still learned a few things, and heard a few opinions on the actual question I asked, which was cool. I think this thread has run it's course, as it seems to be going further and further off topic with each successive post. Thanks again for those of you that participated meaningfully to my thread.
Rail Driver said:
I don't think you're grasping what an inane question it is in context, though. The series of misfortunes, bad SA and bad judgment calls that would have to happen for this to be valid would have already pretty much ensured that you've lost from the get-go. You may as well ask if we'd hang from the edge of a railcar for cover while dueling a BG on top of a moving train. Tactical value? Maybe. But then, you're dueling a BG on top of a moving train.
At this point, Darwin simply takes on the role of repo man...
OP
OP
You're argument is neither valid (due to the fact that the inanity of the question is subjective and based on your own perspective.) nor relevant.
Again, the circumstances leading up to the *hypothetical* situation are irrelevant to the question I asked.
The "chances of survival" before the event in the question are irrelevant (though you could assume that since you're in the situation *hypothetically* that you had nothing left to lose but your life anyway, and that losing your life is an immediate probability unless you do something, and possibly in spite of what you do. This assumption doesn't affect the question asked, or the answer to that question)
Regardless, as I mentioned in my last post, I believe the thread has answered my question as well as it is going to, and I won't be following it anymore.
Again, the circumstances leading up to the *hypothetical* situation are irrelevant to the question I asked.
The "chances of survival" before the event in the question are irrelevant (though you could assume that since you're in the situation *hypothetically* that you had nothing left to lose but your life anyway, and that losing your life is an immediate probability unless you do something, and possibly in spite of what you do. This assumption doesn't affect the question asked, or the answer to that question)
Regardless, as I mentioned in my last post, I believe the thread has answered my question as well as it is going to, and I won't be following it anymore.
I probably would, but not until I reached the "Well, nothing else has worked, might as well give it a shot" point.
Here's the thing, chances are it would have to be a shot through a limb, most like an arm, otherwise the bullet path will just be too erratic. Then theres the blood loss, and the muscle damage. I'd be more likely to take an action that would end in me breaking and dislocating something of my own, because I know I can deal with that type of pain, before I start putting rounds through me to get to the BG.
This is a really interesting question, and something I know I don't think about very often, thanks for bringing it up.
Here's the thing, chances are it would have to be a shot through a limb, most like an arm, otherwise the bullet path will just be too erratic. Then theres the blood loss, and the muscle damage. I'd be more likely to take an action that would end in me breaking and dislocating something of my own, because I know I can deal with that type of pain, before I start putting rounds through me to get to the BG.
This is a really interesting question, and something I know I don't think about very often, thanks for bringing it up.
Old Coot sounds like he really knows what he's talking about. Although some would prefer ground fighting as apposed to a situation where you're trading blows. Never stand and trade blows. No matter how skilled you are anyone has the chance to get in that lucky shot that could possibly take you down. But like Old Coot said, space is always your friend.
Sorry Rail Driver that everyone got off subject here. Maybe we should start a new thread on how to avoid getting into being face down on the pavement in the first place.
I guess it's hard to answer your question about shooting yourself in the situation you described if we don't believe we would ever be in that particular situation to begin with.
As a thought, maybe you shouldn't have given us a situation at all. I guess it was a distraction to your root question; Would you shoot though yourself to
hit a BG in order to save your life. Period. Very interesting question if not having to ponder a scenario. I guess anyone would have to try the shot. Whats the alternative? Death.
Sorry Rail Driver that everyone got off subject here. Maybe we should start a new thread on how to avoid getting into being face down on the pavement in the first place.
I guess it's hard to answer your question about shooting yourself in the situation you described if we don't believe we would ever be in that particular situation to begin with.
As a thought, maybe you shouldn't have given us a situation at all. I guess it was a distraction to your root question; Would you shoot though yourself to
hit a BG in order to save your life. Period. Very interesting question if not having to ponder a scenario. I guess anyone would have to try the shot. Whats the alternative? Death.
For HD, my carry ammo is typically fast & light for max expansion & energy transfer, and to limit OP. So, no. My ammo choices don't really leave that as an option. If I'm home, then my only HD weapons available are the 12 gage SxS coach on the mantel, or the 1300 12 gage next to the bed. The handguns are in the safe. I am not taking two oz of buckshot to any part of my body, nor can I envision a situation that would require it.
I guess I beat around the bush,Sorry. I attempted to give you another option and guess I failed. Sorry if I didn't make myself real plain as I am going by experience and training and that thought would never enter my mind. My simple answer is NO I would not shoot myself for many reasons, already covered.
- Status
Similar threads
