Would you bother owning a handgun under these conditions?

[Mr. Ready]

I live in Australia, I joined THR because I'm enthusiastic about guns and I find THR to be a mature and civilized board.

Anyway, unlike in the UK, civilian ownership of revolvers and semi-automatic pistols is allowed here but for target shooting purposes only and under extremely strict conditions. I used to own two handguns, a CZ-75b 9mm and a Colt King Cobra, but I got fed up with the harsh conditions imposed upon owning them so I sold them and didn't bother renewing my licence.

In order for a civillian to obtain a handgun they must first join a pistol range. After you have been a member for 6 months you get a probationary licence which permits you to own a rimfire target pistol. After that you get your full licence and you can have centrefire semi or revolver. If you want something chambered for rounds like .38 Super, or .40S&W you have to prove you are doing something like steel plinking. I only did paper targets so the most powerful gear i could get was up to 9x19 Parabellum. You may only obtain lead round nose or wadcutter rounds. Yes, that also meant I couldn't buy.357 mag rounds for my Cobra, I could only buy .38spl for it. A guy I knew there was only realy interested in paper target shooting but he did that all stuff just so he could have m1911's in .45ACP. The guns must at all times be securely stored in a safe that is more then 150kg or bolted to the floor, with the only exeptions being when you are cleaning or mantaining it. When traveling to the range it must be in a safe in a car. The police may show up ANY TIME, ANY DAY to inspect your safes.

There are also strict conditions on longarm ownership too but I am less familiar with them. Rifle loading systems can only be up to bolt action and shotguns only up to double barrel!

I still go to the pistol club every here and there just to hang out and do a bit of shooting (as a guest) but I dont like the club guns (only .22lr target pistols) so if I went too often people would quickly grow tired of me shooting their guns with their ammo.

I love guns but I think owning them here just isn't worth the hassle. Do you?

 

[tarosean]

There is an Australian member here, Morgo, who has some impressive handguns.. So yeah I would not let your government win.

 

[mnrivrat]

In a word - probably not . I can imagine the USA with that level of government control if the polititians have their way.

It is sickening to think about being a Subject to the government with no personal rights.

 

[tomrkba]

Your government admitted to imposing those restrictions for the sole purpose of discouraging firearms ownership. We know what governments do to unarmed civilian populations and it is not good. You and your friends need to DEMAND change and CREATE the right to keep and bear arms in your country. I have no idea how that will come about in your country's political context. I think this is far more important than owning or not; doing so acknowledges their EVIL system as legitimate.

That said, I would own a rifle with scope and a semiauto handgun. I would know how to shoot accurately to 1,000 yards and would teach my friends those skills. I would also learn to fight with handguns and would use Airsoft for training. These skills, along with the friends and contacts, make you dangerous to the government's evil political position. It is up to you to create change by creating as many allies as possible. Get organized using VCDL's model (contact Phillip Van Cleave) AND SHOW UP TO PARLIAMENT AND LOBBY (assuming you are "allowed" to do so).

 

[Blackstone]

I don't know about Australia, but here in the UK, there is little public appetite for liberal gun ownership. The public are just so afraid. If you ask anyone else they will say that people shouldn't be allowed guns except for maybe shotguns and bolt action rifles for hunting. It's been a struggle not to allow any further infringements. We'll also point to America everytime there's a mass shooting and just shake our heads. It would be a long road to get our pistols back.

 

[nosmr2]

I'd bother with the hassle. The hassle is only there to discourage.

 

[beatledog7]

Think about getting on a commercial passenger jet. It's a major hassle: you get probed, you have your bags searched, you can't bring the things you really need...

But we do it.

 

[tomrkba]

We'll also point to America everytime there's a mass shooting and just shake our heads. It would be a long road to get our pistols back.

No law ever stops such things. All these laws do is create a nation of victims.

 

[JFrame]

I don't know about Australia, but here in the UK, there is little public appetite for liberal gun ownership. If you ask anyone else they will say that people shouldn't be allowed guns except for maybe shotguns and bolt action rifles for hunting.

We have an unsettling number of people like that here in the U.S. The vast majority of them are called "Democrats."


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[SouthernBoy]

Contrast that with my state.

Last Friday, I took a decision to buy a new gen4 Glock 22 so off I went to my favorite local gun shop. He had none in stock so I went by another shop which was closer to me and where I had seen they had one the previous day. They still had the one I saw so I bought it. Filled out the requisite two documents for the purchase, paid for my new Glock, and left a happy man. There is no purchase license required nor is there any registration in my state for firearms, so no concerns there.

Once at home, I spent time examining my new purchase and even did a detail strip of the frame. I ordered a 6 pound trigger spring and a 3.5 Glock connector from GlockParts.com and that is it.

Oh, BTW... When I was in both stores my primary carry gun, a gen3 Glock 23, was on my side in full view, open carry is the normal (standard, default) mode of carrying a firearm in my state so that was a non-issue.

I am going out this morning to a few places and as usual, my G23 will be riding along on my side and visible.

Freedom is nice.

 

[Radagast]

I am an Aussie and a pistol owner.

On Monday night I went shooting at my club, a casual club competition. Afterwards I and eight friends went to dinner and talked about guns, politics, night vision equipment and hunting. A good time was had by all.

Previously I was heavily into IPSC competition and traveled a fair bit to shoot matches. Again I met up with great people to socialize with. In fact almost all of my social contact involves shooting - people who I've met through shooting or people who have tried it and liked it after meeting me.
Shooters are generally nice people to be around.

I also represented IPSC, Sporting Shooters Association of Australia & the Shooters Party at various Federal and state level meetings to deal with firearms regulations and range access.

Just to clarify:
Yes there is a six month wait to purchase your first handgun, but it doesn't have to be a rimfire unless your club is one of the less enlightened ones who insist on a .22 for your first gun. Most of the newbies in my club buy a Glock, S&W 686 or 1911.
.38 super is not restricted to steel plinking, it is legal for any centerfire competition and can be bought on a standard pistol license.
.40 & .45 are available for SASS or Metallic Silhouette competitions, not plinking.
Some ranges have restrictions placed on the use of jacketed ammo, the majority of those I have visited do not.
Jacketed and semi jacketed hollow points are available from most gun stores. JHP projectiles are available for reloading, they are imported and cost a bit more than local cast lead. In fact pistol ammo is easier to buy in Australia than the USA at the moment due to the recent panic buying.

Safes must be bolted to the floor. A locked box or trigger lock is required for transportation.

Police must make an appointment to inspect a safe. Yes it is a violation of our rights to have an unwarranted search, but it is not anytime, any day.

Rifle actions that are available for the average shooter include lever and pump as well as bolt actions. Remington pump actions so tacti-cooled that they would make any AR15.comer happy are quite common.

Pump action and semi auto shotguns are restricted. Lever actions are not and are quite popular. The triple barreled Chiappa Triple Threat will be available here.

Your understanding of the legislation is quite lacking for someone who has held a license and owned firearms.

 

[JFrame]

I am an Aussie and a pistol owner.

On Monday night I went shooting at my club,

...

Your understanding of the legislation is quite lacking for someone who has held a license and owned firearms.

...But you do realize how damning with faint praise your clarifications are?


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[Blackstone]

Pump action and semi auto shotguns are restricted. Lever actions are not and are quite popular. The triple barreled Chiappa Triple Threat will be available here.
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Is it similar to the UK where you're limited to a magazine capacity of 2 for pumps/SA shotguns, unless you can show good reason to have an unrestricted one? (such as practical shotgun). Sounds like Australia isn't much better than the UK, with the exception of still having pistols.

I'm from Northern Ireland in the UK, and we still have our pistols. You can get any "power" from .22 to .45 without all the restrictions on what you can use them for so you can get a .45 for plinking (though on your form, you would put target shooting and have to be part of a shooting club). I've been told (but never seen) that you can also get a .44

 

[Ed Ames]

No.

The problem with dancing to their tune is it wears you out and wastes your money, leaving you unable to push back. You've got to keep your eyes on the prize.

I would tally the cost to own two or three handguns, including club dues, fees, petrol for trips to/from the range, ammo, the guns themselves, and all the incidentals. I would then give that amount of money to an organization dedicated to fostering a positive public image for guns/attacking anti-gun policies, or start my own. It's an uphill slog but the alternative is all down hill.

 

[bigdaa]

I'm sorry, I cannot wrap my head around jumping through so many government hoops.

While I live in California, and the impositions here grow, it is still so foreign to me not to just pack up a gat or two and head to the open space.

I wish you well. Perhaps someday sense will return to OZ.

 

[Blackstone]

I disagree. It shows defiance. I am a +1 to the number of gun owners. The day that nobody has a gun because it was made too difficult to obtain one is the day they win. There's no point in having an organisation to represent gun owners if there are no gun owners to represent.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

Blackstone: What is the public reaction to the Tube or bus bombings? Don't they realize that it is the people, not the hardware?

 

[Blackstone]

Stiff upper lip. Of course, having a bomb is illegal. They're designed to kill after all. And it's under that same logic that they say guns should be banned. Yes it's the people, but if you can't ban the people, you ban the tools :banghead:

The majority of street police are unarmed as well, which given the quality of the police "marksmen" here, I'm kind of happy about. I often think what the effect of a Mumbai-style attack on the UK would be.

 

[Ed Ames]

There's no point in having an organisation to represent gun owners if there are no gun owners to represent.

Right-o. But you'll notice I didn't suggest giving money to an organization that represents gun owners. The need is for a group that encourages the view that gun ownership is good.

Why?

Because we aren't talking about adding a gun owner. There is no +1 in this scenario. We're talking about a former gun owner (in other words, someone who was already convinced and would already support liberalizing the gun laws) returning to the fold. That's not growth. There needs to be growth, new people from the public at large joining for the first time, and that means outreach.

In my opinion.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

While I live in California, and the impositions here grow, it is still so foreign to me not to just pack up a gat or two and head to the open space.

You like to pack a Korean cylindrical black hat with a wide brim, sometimes two and go to open space. Strange sir, strange indeed.

To the OP, I encourage you to stand firm, follow the law, and purchase the handguns. I know it is an inconvenience, but that's what they want is for you to just say "forget it" and roll over. Don't give them the satisfaction.

 

[Walkalong]

I love guns but I think owning them here just isn't worth the hassle. Do you?

Absolutely worth the trouble. Never give in. Our job as voters is to try to keep the hassle to a minimum.

 

[Radagast]

JFrame:
Certainly. I'm old enough to remember mail order M14s & handguns. I've have had to make the choice of handing over firearms or going to jail - registration does indeed equal confiscation. I know that our situation is not free and is effectively fascist in its treatment of the right to keep and bear arms.

Unlike OP I've actually put a lot of time and money into ensuring that Aussies are able to own firearms and have places to shoot them. Once we have lost those we will never get them back.
OP reminds me of the types who would come up to me at the range, knowing I was putting in 20 volunteer hours a week and says "Someone should..." or complain about the actions of the SSAA or IPSC, but never offered to be the someone, donate money & time or hold an office of responsibility.
Instead he says everything sucks, exaggerates the suckitude and effectively asks you to agree with him.

 

[Highland Ranger]

Sad to think all this will one day be the case here in the states.

 

[JFrame]

JFrame:
Certainly. I'm old enough to remember mail order M14s & handguns. I've have had to make the choice of handing over firearms or going to jail - registration does indeed equal confiscation. I know that our situation is not free and is effectively fascist in its treatment of the right to keep and bear arms.

Radagast -- I truly feel for your plight, and the position that you and other freedom-loving Aussie firearm aficionados find yourselves.

History tends to show us that natural rights, once lost, are almost impossible to recover -- at least within any historically recognizable time-frame. But here's hoping that you all eventually prevail in your Good Fight.


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[Potatohead]

Glad im in the U S of A