Wrting a story... gun questions...

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MicroBalrog

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1.What are grain silos built from? What type of round will penetrate one? How realistic is the idea of "grain silo exposion caused by incendiary round"?

2.Assume a gun is briefly submerged in water, then extracted. What has to be done for it to be capable of firing?

3.The story in question is to feature a large-ish "survivalist compound". Were can I read about security in such places?
 
1.) Silos are usually aluminum. Pretty much anything will penetrate. Grain dust is highly explosive and it's conceivable that incendiary ammo could cause a mega kaboom.

2.) You make sure the barrel is reasonably clear and pull the trigger.

3.) Not a clue.
 
There needs to be a lot of 'grain dust' floating around in the air above the grain for a big-time explosion. This could be due to grain being added to the elevator, air movement from drier fans, etc. Then fire (MAYBE from an incendary round) will set off the fine, flammable particulate matter disbursed in the air and the burn-time is quick enough that an explosion happens.
 
I'm not an expert but I'll throw in:
I don't see any reason why, if you just dip a gun briefly in water, it shouldn't be able to fire right away. You might want to pop out the magazine, if it has one, and open the chamber with the barrel pointed down, cock the hammer to make sure that there isn't any water trapped in the chamber/barrel/firing pin channel. Anybody here have the Glock cup-gizmo that allows it to be fired underwater?
Anybody want to admit dropping their shotgun in the juice while duck hunting? :eek: Any SEALs (note: not SEELs!)out there want to chime in?

There used to be decommissioned missle silos up for sale by the .gov. I always thought one of those would be cool to set up my own little community. There were blueprints and information listed online.

If you are gonna shoot at a silo to make it go kaboom, I would think you'd want to aim high. Shooting low might put the round in the actual grain pile. You'd want to hit higher up where the air and grain dust have mixed.

Watchagotgoin' Microbalrog? I am almost done with Enemies Foriegn and Domestic and I'll need some new reading material soon!
 
Grain silos can be constructed of various materials. The bigger the silo, the stronger the material. It could be punctured. Materials include concrete (impenetrable) to the aforementioned aluminum (penetrable).

The silo must contain grain dust (hydrocarbons) in a finely divided state (i.e. flour). During loading the dust is airborne. IIRC the dust must be 10-15% concentration in the air for an ignition source to ignite the fuel. AN incendiary round would certainly qualify.

Any firearm submerged in water must be cleared for safety. Open the action and drain the barrel. Load and fire. The DE would require removal of mag, open action, tilt, reload.
 
The character in question will take a short 5-10 minute swim with a Desert Eagle.
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I sure hope it's one of those gold-plated ones...I mean just for the sake of tactical correctness.

brad cook
 
echo what 7.62 said - I work at a distillery and our million bushel silo is concrete. Our old quarter million bushel silos are tin. The tiny ones (less than 50,000 bushels) found on farms around here are usually tin but there are still a bunch of older small ones around made of concrete and covered in some kind of ceramic tile.

About grain dust - there has to be a critical level of suspension in the air to combust but it's not really that high. In our safety training, we are told that as soon as you notice there is dust floating in the air, there is enough to cause an explosion if it is ignited. Big grain dust explosions are usually secondary detonations - the first explosion lofts all the unsuspended dust into the air which then combusts. The most amazing item in our traing was just how little pressure is needed to destroy a structure. I don't remember the exact numbers but even a concrete silo can only withstand a few pounds of pressure above atmospheric.

I think the idea of an incindiary round causing a grain dust explosion is only remotely feasible unless in your story the grain is being moved, i.e. being conveyed into the silo.

INRE your other two questions - no idea - sorry

Keith
 
Micro:

Now have a couple of good guys who carry the .500 smith and wesson revolvers concealed. That would be totally radical, dude. And lots of full-auto Glock 17's with 30 round "clips". This is going to be so totally, extra-awesome I might just flip out. Yes!!

brad cook

ps - :neener:
 
If he goes swimming with a Desert Eagle he'd probably just sink.

Can I please request, for the sake of all that is good, that you not equip anyone in your story with a Desert Eagle? I tend to like stories a lot more when they use realistic, practical weapons instead of ones that look good in movies.
 
Can I please request, for the sake of all that is good, that you not equip anyone in your story with a Desert Eagle? I tend to like stories a lot more when they use realistic, practical weapons instead of ones that look good in movies.
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Look good in movies? Good is terribly subjective, and I, for one, have never, ever seen a Desert Eagle look "good." :D
 
Desert Eagle - Meh. They just don't do it for me. Not to mention for the same price you could get a nice custom 1911 that will do most everything the Eagle does without weighing four pounds (I know Desert Eagles are supposed to be able to penetrate body armor, but you shouldn't be using a pistol to penetrate body armor anyway).
 
The grain silo on our property growing up was a 40-footer, made of galvanized steel. Pretty much any decent rifle bullet would've punched a hole in it, but it was a small one.
 
I don't know about grain silos, but I'll take a whack at 2 and 3.

No problem with guns in water, at all. If you're coming out of beach surf, you can get some sand into some guns, which MAY cause a problem, otherwise no sweat. We used to have problems once in a while with M-16s and CAR-15 when firing from the water immediately after surfacing on closed circuit scuba infiltrations. Apparantly, water may get trapped in dirty gas tubes. This is fairly unique to M-16 family weapons due to the thin long gas tube.

The general rule with any weapon was to just pull the bolt back slightly with the barrel tipped up to drain it. Then fire away. Military ammo has the primers coated with a durable waterproof laquer, you may have problems with civilian ammo, I don't know. We always fired or threw out ammo that had been submerged after an exercise, we never put it into storage for later.

As far as "compounds" and security, I recommend you get and read "Patriots: Surviving the Coming Collapse" by James Wesley Rawles. HIGHLY recommended for the information on gear and tactics in a TEOTWAWKI or SHTF scenario.

Matt

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Here in the mid west Large grain terminals and storage facilities "usually" have heavy reinforced concrete silos. Very hard to penitrate with small calibre rounds. There would have to be a week spot such as an access door etc to allow a small cal to penitrate the structure.
If it were to detonate I would suspect the force of the explosion to be directed up and out much like a gun barrel unless access doors where open. But who knows? Where does the expression " Blow the top off come from?"

Vern
 
While shooting on an old farm years ago we hung some targets in an empty inspection hatch opening on an old steel silo. Hatch was about 3' x 3'. Silo was about 12' - 15' in diameter. It was very rusty but still sound.

.38 special (6" Colt PPS) and 9mm 115gr ball & HP (S&W 59) would just bounce around inside.

.38 super (Colt LtWt Commander) loaded with 130gr linotype bullets over a near max charge made nice silver "stars" on the opposite side, but FMJ .38 super made these really nice little round holes right through the opposite side.

.45 ball (Colt Gov) would make nice big dents while Remington 185gr JHP just left smears and occasionally small dents in the rusty metal.

Had some .22 long rifle ammo (Ruger Super Single Six 6½") actually bounce back out and make extra holes in the targets.
 
1.What are grain silos built from? What type of round will penetrate one? How realistic is the idea of "grain silo exposion caused by incendiary round"?

Do you mean grain BIN or SILO? A grain bin is (most often) made of steel/tin that is Galvanized for corosion protection. Anything over a .380 should penetrate. (Note the lower rings are heavier then upper)
A (IMO) true silo is made out of cement bricks like was said by they are just under 4" thick and must be 10" wide and 20" tall (rough guess) They are tounge and groved into next one and held in by steel rods over 1/2" thick that are tightened to hold firm. Closer at base and wider spacing as you go up. The bottom is actually below ground level and wide cement up to @ 3' above that i doubt anything under a .50BMG rd would go thru.
STuff in silos is normally silage/haylage/or high moisture corn. None of which is likely to explode. There are @ 3 types of steel silos made for high moisture storage. Those do have heavy steel that I doubt handgun rds would go thru.
To explosion IMO it is very doubtful. Those rds unless they hit some LP tanks stored in bin. HEY here is idea. Make it a Dryer bin. They are hooked up to @1000gal LP tanks. Have on of the first rds hit the dryer unit which causes the gas to flow with no flame into base of bin. Fills bin with LP then THEN the bullet causes it to blow.....



2.Assume a gun is briefly submerged in water, then extracted. What has to be done for it to be capable of firing?
Just water? Nothing. As long as you don't have a water tight holster (I.E. drill hole in base for drain if this is concern) by time you get to shore the gun is ready to go. IF gun needed while still in water the best is to open breach and with muzzle down give it a puff of air. In truth all you need is to make sure there is no seal. Water IN the barrel when you shoot will cause overpressure/kaboom. However if everything under water not as big of problem as some water. I.E. I would rather hold entire gun under water and shoot it rather then lift it up muzze up and shoot it upward without a good shake.

3.The story in question is to feature a large-ish "survivalist compound". Were can I read about security in such places
 
What about a .50 BMG tracer round? Although it'd be unlikely for a Barrett user to employ one, wouldn't that be enough to ignite the dust?

For the DE unenthusiasts, Micro's got every right to have his protagonist use whatever hardware he desires. Although I wouldn't go for one myself, there's probably some god reason for using one. In another thread, somone mentioned that "picking a gun just because 'I just like this one' is a good reason." Same applies to fiction, hopefully... I personally wonder why people are still playing around with 400-year-old-and obsolete musket technology. Stuff like that doesn't belong in today's world ;) :rolleyes:
 
What about a .50 BMG tracer round? Although it'd be unlikely for a Barrett user to employ one, wouldn't that be enough to ignite the dust?
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In my area, at the monthly gunshow, the easiest surplus .50BMG ammo to find is actually the dark red tipped/silver banded APIT (*armor pierceing-incendiary-tracer) rounds. $2 each (cheaper in quantity).

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Larry_Minn pretty well sumed it up on silos and bins. The silos made of concrete tile as I call them are generally found on farms were they feed silage to livestock. We occasionally have stored dried corn in the concrete silos of that nature but had to add more bands around the bottom to make up for the extra wieght of the grain and it's "fluid" nature.
I have taken down several of these silos by using a sledge hammer to remove most of the blocks/tile and then from a safe distance shot out the last "keystone" block/tile that was holding up the entire silo. It takes a 308., 30-06,.270 type/size round to really put a hole thru the concrete. Somewhere I have pictures of them coming down etc. I will try to find and post them. They do not fall over, but rather crumple at the base and slide sideways as they come down remaining erect the entire time. A 14-16 ft. diameter by 50 foot tall silo will make a rubble pile about 16 ft by 30 ft. and 2 ft deep. For what it's worth.

Vern
 
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