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WW2 Half Hip pistol shooting-on you tube

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No, he doesn't. He flubbed his draw pretty bad the second time. And his first shot was pretty slow once he finally got his gun out.
 
Being hit in the guts or n's is going to be a bad day for anyone :)

The steel target is the size of a typical 12-13 year old, about 35% reduced from an adults typical dimensions.
 
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It looks like you're pretty close to that steel. How far away are your first shots?

I remember being taught that technique back when I entered LE...back in 1979...then we evolved through the Speed Rock to shooting from Retention
 
Closest is 6 feet, then at 9 feet. Steels designed to "lean" down enough to put rounds in the dirt, shot at a very slight angle, no splatter on shooters but rarely. Ya, most don't recommend it that close, I've shot steel at 6 feet for years with a few scratches to show for it. Don't recommend it, but for me it works fine.

6 feet isn't my idea of retention shooting, for that I'd use 1/4 hip at bad breath, if I even pulled the pistol at all at touching distances. I prefer the CAR retention skills if someone is trying to take the gun from me. :cool:
 
brownie0486 said:
The vid only demo's the skill's effectiveness. It wasn't meant to show how fast he can be.
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I'm not commenting on his speed, per se. Although, there's a significant needless delay in firing the shot once he finally gets into position.

In another thread where speed is being discussed, two of the three elements required are "smooth" and "efficient." This guy had trouble putting those two together. Maybe we caught him on a bad day, but he's the one that posted it.
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Again, it was to demonstrate the skill of WW2 1/2 hip at 6 and 9 feet, no more or less. Just that the skill works on threats. It wasn't about speed, fumbling on a draw or hesitation. Just that the skills works without having to go to line of sight out to 9 feet [ though it can be used beyond that somewhat ].
 
Isn't the goal to get hits on target fast?

Since I now realize this is you posting your own video, let me suggest you outline the differences between 1/4 and 1/2 hip, as well as elbow up/down, along with an explanation of what works best when.

And not that you need or want help from me about marketing, but I'd be slow to cough up money to learn techniques that date back to at least WW II. But I'd spend money to learn about "Effective Defensive Hipshooting" or some such.
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The differences between 1/4 and 1/2 and 3/4 hip are easily researched on your computer. They are well documented so they're easy to find.

"Effective Defensive Hipshooting" class? 1/2 hip is but one skill of many threat focused skills available to everyone. You couldn't hold a class for more than a few hours if it were only going to be "Effective Defensive Hipshooting".

Usually a weekend includes 8-10 skills without looking at the firearm, some taken from ww2 Fairbairn/Sykes/Applegate, others from various other sources over the years.

As for the marketing, the course is called "Threat Focused Pistol" in my own case, but DR has his system called something else, Pincus has his course called something else, along with a host of others out there who teach threat focused skills of some flavor/configuration.

The 1/2 hip is but one skill of many, not a stand alone course.
 
I'm not sure you're demonstrating anything, really, except that this technique, as executed, is slower and less accurate than a competent two handed, sighted shot.

You could probably dig a foundation with a soup spoon, if it was the only tool you had, but you'd be silly to do it if you had a trackhoe sitting there.
Possibly in WWII, this was cutting edge, but we've got better tools available these days.
 
Matt, I wasn't going for speed, I've mentioned that a few times now. Just demonstrating the skill, no more or less.

In fact, when I choose to, I've been timed on 1/2 hip open carry at .43-45 seconds average and from concealed under a T .88-.93. Few will do that going to line of sight or two handed.
 
I'm not inclined to research the terms, as they may or may not be what YOU think they are or what YOU are teaching. And I did not realize you're going to start a thread with more video links about the other techniques.

I'd have to see you achieve those draw times before I believe them.

When I pay money for a class, I expect the instructor to be able to perform the skills he is teaching me, perfectly, on demand. He must do, not just "teach" it. He doesn't have to do them faster than me (unless it's a Speed class) and better than me, at least initially. The techniques must be executed correctly. Each time.
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brownie0486 said:
I wasn't going for speed, how many times does it have to be mentioned? :D
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I know it seems like we're hammering it pretty hard, but that is how folks judge a defensive skill...as a combination of speed and accuracy. Just curious, at that distance, what advantage would there be over shooting from Retention with equal speed and accuracy?

The look of it is more like a parlour trick. It is like folks who want to demonstrate splitting a playing card in half (edgewise)...and then do it from 6 feet away; rather than 5 yards.

For readers who don't have experience shooting steel targets, I'd like to mention that the usually recommended minimum safe distance is 10 yards or 30'...5 times the distance we're seeing.
 
I'm not inclined to research the terms, as they may or may not be what YOU think they are or what YOU are teaching. And I did not realize you're going to start a thread with more video links about the other techniques.

I'd have to see you achieve those draw times before I believe them.

When I pay money for a class, I expect the instructor to be able to perform the skills he is teaching me, perfectly, on demand. He must do, not just "teach" it. He doesn't have to do them faster than me (unless it's a Speed class) and better than me, at least initially. The techniques must be executed correctly. Each time.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=212768&highlight=Brownie+in+Tenn

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=202972&highlight=threat+focused
 
I know it seems like we're hammering it pretty hard, but that is how folks judge a defensive skill...as a combination of speed and accuracy. Just curious, at that distance, what advantage would there be over shooting from Retention with equal speed and accuracy?

The look of it is more like a parlour trick. It is like folks who want to demonstrate splitting a playing card in half (edgewise)...and then do it from 6 feet away; rather than 5 yards.

For readers who don't have experience shooting steel targets, I'd like to mention that the usually recommended minimum safe distance is 10 yards or 30'...5 times the distance we're seeing.

Nah, I don't it as hammering at all.

I fully support the idea of shooting from retention at 6 feet, it's within the range of that skill for anyone shown properly, especially with the same speed. I personally reserve the retention shooting for near or touching range. If charged at close range and I decided to draw, of course the retention shooting comes into play naturally.

Well, it's no parlour trick, it's a real world skill with a history of use and successes in ww2, along with 3/4 and point shoulder. I included two links from the forum from reviews of some years ago here. Perhaps the reviews of members here in the past who've worked with it will enlighten others more than I might.
 
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9mm, I'm not judging his video based on the speed, but the execution.

The execution is not consistent and the "accuracy" ain't all that impressive, either.

I'd be more impressed with a sloooow draw with commentary about each aspect of the draw, concluding with two snake-eyes center chest. Then 2 more draws speeding things up to "medium," with a tennis ball size cluster of 6 shots center chest.

I'm sure Brownie is a great guy who has some shooting skill, but this video doesn't showcase that.
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Mat said:
I'm not sure you're demonstrating anything, really, except that this technique, as executed, is slower and less accurate than a competent two handed, sighted shot.

You could probably dig a foundation with a soup spoon, if it was the only tool you had, but you'd be silly to do it if you had a trackhoe sitting there.
Possibly in WWII, this was cutting edge, but we've got better tools available these days.
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Um, no. For any given shooter, triggering the shots from below eye level, pre-extension and sight picture confirmation will always be faster. It is just time and space, less of it is required shooting from the hip or retention.

My FIL shoots cowboy fast draw, they shoot single action revolvers and start with the hand on the gun. At these distances he hits in under a third of a second. Add draw time from concealment to that and that is what is possible when you don't have to extend or confirm a sight picture.

I've done a lot of point shooting, it is a great skill to have. At 3-7 yard ranges any average shooter can learn to get rapid COM hits in short order. In my personal opinion, somewhere between 5-7yds is the break-even point where it starts to make sense to go to full extension and confirm the sights. At 5 yds and under-I'm all about retention (contact range to 6ft), half hip (beyond 6ft to 4 yds) and 3/4 hip (5 yds or so).
 
strambo said:
Um, no. For any given shooter, triggering the shots from below eye level, pre-extension and sight picture confirmation will always be faster.
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If you shoot your gun while it's still in the holster, that's faster still!

The problem is hitting your target instead of shooting at your target. The dynamic in play is the time taken to assume the "proper" position before firing. Not to pick on Brownie, he takes significant time to get his elbow in place before shooting. One could use the same, if not less, time to bring the gun up

My FIL shoots cowboy fast draw, they shoot single action revolvers and start with the hand on the gun. At these distances he hits in under a third of a second. Add draw time from concealment to that and that is what is possible when you don't have to extend or confirm a sight picture.
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What a cowboy quick draw fella can do with a HAND ON GUN START from a special rig is meaningless here. Putting a cover garment over his cowboy rig has no impact if he's still starting with his hand one the gun. Even if he's great with his first shot, how is he on followup shots on multiple targets using only one hand?

I agree that point shooting has its place, but sighted fire isn't as slow as most people think.

In my cop days, my group was getting handgun training. The instructor was shoving point shooting down our throats, and not doing a very good job. On one drill, we were told to point shoot from 7 yds. I decided to use my sights. At signal, I fired both my shots before anyone else fired their first. The guy next to me missed one shot and barely hit with the other. He looked at my two center hits and whined that I cheated because I used my sights! He overlooked the fact that I was faster and more accurate than he was, doing it the "slow" way.
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brownie0486 said:
Hello Ankeny,

How have you been? :cool:

I wasn't going for speed, how many times does it have to be mentioned? :D
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If you were not going for speed why such poor groups at such short ranges?

Brownie,

I used to teach martial arts (had my own school till I after I got married.) If one is going to demonstrate a technique one had better be good with it or the students will not respect it. No hangups, no poor groups, no mistakes.

Yes one can demonstrate it slow, and do it perfectly, then speed up are re-demonstrate it at speed.

You are on national stage on Youtube Brownie. All the world is watching.

Strambo,

In self defense you never know if you will have to shoot with the gun in ones hand or in the holster to start (not to mention being shot at first or in the process of being beaten.)

Hence you do most of your practice from the leather.

And yes David,

You can fire two handed at eye sight in far less than one second and, at such ranges, get very tight groups.

Deaf
 
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