Wyoming Wants Mountain Goats Killed

[George P]

I'd like to see the NPS spend this much effort eliminating the huge pythons taking over the Everglades and killing everything as they have no apex predator; leave the damn goats alone and sell hunting tags

 

[bearcreek]

I'd like to see the NPS spend this much effort eliminating the huge pythons taking over the Everglades and killing everything as they have no apex predator; leave the damn goats alone and sell hunting tags

I've not hunted either species but I imagine that , from a helicopter, it's considerably harder to see and shoot pythons in a swamp than it is to see and shoot white goats on gray rocks.

 

[George P]

And issuing tags saves the cost of helicopters while raising revenue; that's a double positive

 

[daniel craig]

Like rabbits in Australia. Or hawgs in TX. Invasive. Or a Honda at a Harley bar. So what is that difference Mr Craig?

thanks bear creek for the answer earlier. Except for carrying disease, what trouble does a small bunch of animals cause?

Basically, in order to be considered invasive the existence of a non-native organism must actually be harming the survival of one or more of the native organisms. The idea that goats carry a disease that sheep CAN get seems to not be a strong enough reason to call them invasive....but then they don’t pay me to think.

There’s a growing school of thought in the NPS sister agency that it’s not really worth the time and effort to focus on low impact/low scale non-native invasives and that were better off putting all our effort into the ones that have a larger impact.

I even have know a few biologists who believe that with climate change the invasives problem will be so bad it’s not worth the time to be worrying about it at all (not saying I agree) and that organisms more suited to survive in a given environment and climate and that can adapt to hardship are those that should be allowed to exist in that environment.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Here’s the thing that I don’t get about the NPS or the Co DOW. Mt goats and bighorn sheep co exists in their natural habitat. In fact there are sheep everywhere goats naturally occur. So why is it a problem where they’ve been trans located?

 

[buck460XVR]

The trend in wildlife conservation now is the preservation and re-establishing native populations. Many times because native wildlife evolved with the habitat, they became symbiotic. Thus the introduction or elimination of a species may have detrimental impact on the whole ecosystem. Many times, we as hunters do not consider this when it comes to our priorities. I would assume the NP system has some form of evidence to show why the Goats should be eliminated. I'd also assume that even if there was a hunt allowed, that some other form of culling(helicopters) would need to be done to get them all. While many folks would do what it takes to get a trophy Billy, odds are there aren't a lot of folks that would do the same for ewes and kids. Then there's the public reaction to seeing small pretty Mountain Goat kids strapped to the top of jeeps along with social media. Hiring a professional as opposed to establishing and regulating a hunt, may be a cheaper, easier and faster way to obtain their goal. Since they weren't there to start with, and otherwise can't be hunted there, are they really taking anything away from hunters?

Here in the state of Wisconsin we are going thru the same thing with German Brown Trout and Tiger Muskies. Even tho Tigers are native to some lakes, there are really a hybrid between a Silver Muskie and a Northern Pike. Something that only occurs rarely and in specific types of lakes. Since there was demand, they became a popular plated fish in many waters. They became commonplace and then found to be detrimental to both the established native muskie and Northern populations. Same with the Northern browns and their impact on native Brookies. The state has now stopped planting any of these fish even tho many folks are opposed. Again....priorities.

 

[Patocazador]

The trend in wildlife conservation now is the preservation and re-establishing native populations.

Florida is trying to do the same thing with plants/trees. They want the whole state to be Longleaf pines, wiregrass and palmettos. They want to reduce or eliminate all the oaks that have taken over due to decades of wildfire suppression. Not many deer eat pine cones but they do eat acorns so there is a lot of pushback by residents.

 

[George P]

IDK about that; the oaks where I live are over 200 years old and can have trunk circumferences well over 8 feet.

 

[SweaterBones]

This seems like a great opportunity to sell cheap tags in order to get more business to the park and surrounding businesses from out of state hunters. I’m sure they’ll go the charge as much as possible pricing many out of staters out of it route though.

 

[Patocazador]

IDK about that; the oaks where I live are over 200 years old and can have trunk circumferences well over 8 feet.

This is just one example of what they want to do.
"Longleaf pine once covered 90 million acres from Texas to Florida, but today only 3 percent of the habitat remains. In an effort to reverse this, USDA’s Natural Resources Conservation Service provides financial and technical assistance for conservation practices that help restore longleaf pine forests and enhance existing stands."
https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detail/fl/newsroom/releases/?cid=STELPRDB1262307

 

[George P]

You should come up to north FL/South GA where the quail plantations are; they have some of the older stands of original long leaf pines set amongst their habitats for quail.

 

[Patocazador]

You should come up to north FL/South GA where the quail plantations are; they have some of the older stands of original long leaf pines set amongst their habitats for quail.

I have a 150 acre slash pine farm in the panhandle. Longleafs are just too hard to get started.

 

[George P]

When I lived in Ocala, a worker from my wife's utility gave us some long leaf seedlings they pulled up from a fenceline at a substation - 2 made it and are huge

 

[rdnktrkr]

I like the idea of issuing tags, it would increase the revenue of the fish&game, local businesses and the Park service, by issuing tags they could regulate the sheep that are taken, another good thing is it is giving hunters more game to chase.
This year we were given money to prepare our property for the planting of longleaf pines and we were able to get new firebreaks cut as a training for new recruits

 

[Speedo66]

You just got to go to a dam to find them.

 

[HB]

Its interesting to see how these stories play out. I believe NPS is advocating for a cull because goats are not native to those parks.

I see both sides but side with NPS. I just wish I could get every rainbow out of MO. Smallies lived here first!

It is crazy to see flora and fauna today. I wish i had a time machine.

Don’t get me started on hog and pheasants.

 

[HB]

To get back on topic. I dont think issuing tags would be very effective. As was mentioned earlier, hunters want trophies and want a “hunt”. If the goal is elimination then a hunt won’t accomplish that. Probably less than .1% of hunters are in good enough shape to get to the habitat.

I believe a similar thing was proposed at Olympia NP. I dont think you could even remove the meat. Which makes sense if the goal is wipe out the introduced goats.

 

[bearcreek]

To get back on topic. I dont think issuing tags would be very effective. As was mentioned earlier, hunters want trophies and want a “hunt”. If the goal is elimination then a hunt won’t accomplish that. Probably less than .1% of hunters are in good enough shape to get to the habitat.

My gut tells me I wish they'd issue tags. Logic tells me you're right though. Most "hunters" (like the rest of the population in general) are in poor shape and don't hunt for food (primarily). Seems like they could do both though. Establish a season, issue tags and at the close of the season, send in the helicopters.