x-ring rubber bullets...how do i load them?

[tyhs]

hi,

would someone please explain exactly (step-by-step) how to load primer-only propelled x-ring rubber bullets (as found here http://dillonprecision.com/template/p.cfm?maj=63&min=2&dyn=1&) in brass cases for a .357 mag revolver?

regarding this statement:

Note: X-Ring Rubber Bullets are reusable, primer-powered, and require enlarging the flash hole of brass cases. Once altered, these cases can't be used for loading standard ammo.

what size hole do i need to drill and what size primer do i need to use (ie small pistol or large pistol)? i want to use "lead-free" pmc primers (basement shooting) and those are the two sizes available...if possible, i'd rather use the large pistol primers as those are more readily available to me.

thanks in advance

ty

 

[The Bushmaster]

Hog wash

Try a couple without enlarging the flash hole. If enlarging the flash hole makes them unuseable for regular ammunition, then the Winchester and Federal NT's couldn't be reloaded and we all know that isn't so...I really have no idea how large of a hole they want, but I bet it is on the package. Try some without enlarging the flash hole....Oh...I already said that...

 

[target4fun]

I agree I would try it first w/ out enlargeing anything in the past versions ived use you havent had to enlarge the flash hole dunno if this one is different.

 

[RyanM]

.357 takes small primers. You have no choice unless you have access to a machine shop. Small only. Where are you getting the PMC primers from? I'd be interested in buying some too. As for drill bit size, 3/32" or 7/64" should work. Try both. You definitely need to drill the pockets, otherwise the primers will back out and jam your revolver up. Then you'll need a mallet to whack the cylinder open, and that's not good on the gun. Ask how I know this.

 

[BluesBear]

Go ahrad and take the advice of people who obviously have never used this product in a revolver.

And then when your cylinder won't turn and also won't open maybe then you will believe the instructions.
After all they are the same instructions that manufacturers of rubber, plastic and wax bullets have been giving for 50 years.

It's for the same reason that Speer and Winchester plastic target cases have larger than standard flash holes. (They also use large pistol primers for more velocity.)

DO NOT use rifle primers! Damage to the bullets will result.

If you fire a primer in a case with a standard flash hole that has to powder charge the primer will recoil itself partially out of the pocket.

It's the recoil from a standard load that keeps the primer in place. For those who doubt just put some resized, primed cases in your revolver and start popping them. You'll quickly understand cylinder bind.

And don't forget that after the cases have been altered they are NOT suitable for conventional reloading!

 

[BluesBear]

Having said the above, using X-rings is as simple as other rubber, wax or plastic bullets in brass cases.


After enlarging the primer pockets of full length resized cases you need to prime them. The easiest/cheapest way is to get a Lee hand priming tool.

After the cases are primed you simply press the bullet into the case. FInger pressure is all you will need although I used to use an old sewing thumble to keep my fingertips from becomeing sore.

After firing you need to deprime the case. A hammer and a blunt nail works very well. You will need some sore of "anvil" with an escape hole in which to place the case. The shell holder from the priming tool works fine.

Don't forget that even primer powered rubber/plastic/wax bullets can be dangerous. They will easily penetrate one side the average hollow core door found in most houses.

And they will put your eye out!


I have used X-Ring rubber bullets and Jet-X wax bullets in autoloaders for 30 years. But for revolvers I much prefer the Speer/Winchester plastic bullets and cases.

 

[tyhs]

thank you for all of the replies

BluesBear, the speer plastic cases and bullets were reviewed at midwayusa.com as being generally too small. here is an example of a review:

They are not as advertised.They are not even close to .355. I bought 3 boxes and they mike out around .345. Very innacurate and keyhole nearly every time. I have used this product in the 70's and they were good. In my Ruger Blackhowk 357 they drop clean through the barrel. I cannot recommend this product and it seems like a lot of trouble to return them.

apparently you haven't had the same problem. are they doing something wrong to cause this "keyhole" effect (as if i know what that is...i might guess that the cases are jamming in the barrel)?

ty

 

[The Bushmaster]

Keyholing is when the bullet is striking the target sideways. Which means that the bullet is probably tumbling through the air...

 

[BluesBear]

I would say that some of the people who rewiewed the product at Midway don't quite get the concept.

The Speer plastic .38 and .44 bullets are designed to be used only with the Speer plastic cases.
(Only the plastic Speer .45 bullets are meant to be used with brass.)
The Speer plastic cases are NOT designed to be used in a reloading press.
You just press them over a primer in order to prime them.

Yes they are undersized. They are designed to be reused. If they were a tight fit the rifling would eat them up.
They are accurate to about 25 feet max. How big is your living room anyway?
Yes they keyhole a little bit. But accuracy is still good enough for living room target practice. Any amount of yawing is considered keyholing. I've never had one hit sideways. Most of the hols in my targets are close enough to round but I do notice tearing with heavy paper targets. That is because of the low velocity not enabling the bullets to cut cleanly. You need higher velocity for any bullet to cut a clean hole.
What do you expect for a reuseable uberlight plastic wadcutter?
By the way, keyholeing is not uncommon under certain conditions with lead wadcutters either.

Yes they are dirty. But that's the fault of the primer.
Pop off five or six primered cases in your gun and see how dirty it becomes.
After all there is no powder charge to blow away the primer soot.

If you want something that fits the bore better then enlarge the flash hole in some brass cases and make your own wax bullets.
You just press the mouth of a primed case into a cake of Gulfwax. They would be reuseable IF you melted them down, and formed another cake.

Let's face it folks all of this is just a placebo for real ammo.
If it was just as good as real ammo they why shoot real ammo for practice?
Quite trying to make it into something that it's not.

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why would a primer with no powder, pushing a rubber bullet, back out on a revolver, but not if you drill the flash hole out a little? It seems like there would be way more pressure to push the primer out with a load of powder and a lead or jacketed bullet to push out the barrel.

Or am I missing something? I've never used them, but I'd like to some day.

Enquiring minds want to know...

Andy

 

[Car Knocker]

When a primer ignites, the volumn in the primer pocket area builds up pressure to push the primer out of the pocket. When there's powder in the case also, the pressure from the igniting powder pushes the case back against the breech and keeps the primer even with the base of the case (the unfired primer is usually slightly recessed in the base and after fired is even to the base). An enlarged primer hole limits the pressure build-up that would push the primer out of the pocket.

 

[Mal H]

BigJakeJ1s - BluesBear touched on it without saying the magic word - pressure. Primers actually create a large amount of pressure, so if the expanding gasses have to exit a small hole, the pressure in the primer cavity will be considerably higher than if there is a larger hole, and the primer will back out.

Now, you're puzzled as to why that doesn't happen with normal cartridges and exceedingly higher pressures. The answer is - it does, almost always, and it isn't obvious after firing and examining the case that it happened. The difference is that the case with powder (and higher pressure) will release from the cylinder wall while there is still a lot of pressure in the chamber so the case pushes back against the breech face and reseats the primer into the pocket - all in a tiny fraction of a second.

With primer-only rounds, there is not enough residual pressure to push the case backwards and reseat the primer. In fact there is not enough pressure to fully seal the case against the cylinder wall. For that reason, cases used with the rubber/wax bullets usually get very sooty on the outside.

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

That makes sense now... thanks guys!

Andy

 

[RyanM]

Oh, also, I believe the manufacturer recommends putting the bullet in before you prime. I never do that, but I think they recommend it. You will also want to put a very slight crimp on the cases, and you'll want to tighten the crimp a bit as the bullets get used. Otherwise, they'll slip all the way into the case very easily. You want the tip sticking out. I've never noticed any accuracy differences when I accidentally put them in too far, but I'm pretty sure the manufacturer recommends seating them so that the wide tip is resting on the case mouth.