"XM-8 Melts During Tests"

[Zak Smith]

http://www.strategypage.com//fyeo/howtomakewar/default.asp?target=htweap.htm

WEAPONS OF THE WORLD: XM-8 Melts During Tests


April 14, 2004: The U.S. Army has asked Congress for an extra $26 million to buy 7,000 XM-8 rifles next year. These weapons would be used to equip to infantry brigades and thus give the rifle a wide scale test. The money requested would also pay for the staff needed to monitor the testing. The rifle has already undergone thousands of hours of user testing and there have been some recommendations, all minor. The buttons on the sight are to be rearranged, to make the sight easier to use. There were also complaints about battery life for the sight, and a new battery is being obtained that will boost battery life from 200 to 400 hours. A more serious problem arose when the hand guard began to melt when several hundred rounds were fired in a few minutes. It was expected that the barrel would get very hot in these situations, but the heat resistant hand guard material was thought capable of dealing with that. So now a new hand guard will be needed, with more heat shielding. This will add some weight to the weapon, which is now 6.4 pounds. The designers are trying to get the weight down to 5.7 pounds. There is a bit of competition among combat divisions to be the first to get the rifles for the 2005 test, with many officers lobbying to get one of their divisions brigades selected.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Here's an easy solution.

Sheessh. All that $ for a gun that melts.

Somebody should talk to the folks who makes M&Ms. Melts in your mouth, not in your hand. Since it comes in Easter Colors or Christmas Colors, I'm sure we can ship the guns to M&M for color coating.

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

Didn't they have to improve the heat shielding on the front hand grip on the early M16s, too?

 

[Wanderer]

Now I've never been there, done that, but common sense tells me that rather than having a burnt hand or a melted gun, I'd put up with an extra few ounces.

 

[Wedge]

So why'd we go to plastic stocked guns in the first place? You never hear about wood stocks bursting into flames.

I'm glad my tax dollars are being so wisely spent...

 

[Triad]

the hand guard began to melt when several hundred rounds were fired in a few minutes.

Gee, you mean firing every round you're carrying as fast as you can is a bad thing? If they want a LMG, why don't they buy one?

 

[Zak Smith]

I've seen a full-auto AK (it have been a Krink, I can't remember) get hot enough to smoke the wood handguards.

-z

 

[Triad]

EDIT: Zak beat me. Must learn to type faster.

 

[M1911]

You never hear about wood stocks bursting into flames.

Wanna bet? I've known a fellow that burned up the wood foreend of an AK.

 

[Daedalus]

I remember a video where someone is shooting a full auto AK and the synthetic handguards melt clean off. Later on someone lights a cigarette off the barrel. Funny stuff.

 

[Kaylee]

plastic melts.
go figure.


Seems to me if this is the worst problem they have with the XM-8, then it can't be that bad a system. You'd think that putting heat shields in the hand guard would be something of a no-brainer though, seeing as how it's only been stardard since what... the A1 series?

I still think the XM8 ain't much of a leap forward -- certainly not the quantum leap HK would like us to believe, and it certainly ain't worth the hassle involved, but nonetheless it looks like a very capable system thus far.

Again, if this is the worst problem it has in adoption, that's doing pretty good.

-K

 

[Mulliga]

HK's marketing department is second only to Glock's IMHO...

In a world of compromise...some don't

Anyhoo, I'm sure these bugs will be ironed out. But search me why we are spending all this money on the XM8 (and the OICW, for that matter) when some of our troops aren't even getting flak jackets to protect them when some roadside IED or insurgent threatens them.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

Gee, you mean firing every round you're carrying as fast as you can is a bad thing? If they want a LMG, why don't they buy one?

Sometimes you do have to take your rifle outside of the square range.


one of the design tenents of the assault rifle is a high rate of fire. melting handguards are not conducive to this.


i still don't understand what an xm8 does that an ar-15 doesn't.

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

Mulliga wrote:

"But search me why we are spending all this money on the XM8 (and the OICW, for that matter) when some of our troops aren't even getting flak jackets to protect them when some roadside IED or insurgent threatens them."


Probably because Haliburton doesn't sell flak jackets.

 

[Morgan]

i still don't understand what an xm8 does that an ar-15 doesn't

It runs. Without intensive maintenance, cleaning, or oiling.

Don't get me wrong, I love my AR, but I'd take a G36 or HK33 (and likely an XM8) over my AR in a battle situation, especially in a desert environment.

 

[Wedge]

I've seen a full-auto AK (it have been a Krink, I can't remember) get hot enough to smoke the wood handguards

Whoa! I guess I stand corrected!

 

[MrAcheson]

I've seen someone smoke the handguards on a CETME as well.

What does the XM-8 have above a M-16 variant? Answer: an op-rod so it doesn't **** where it eats. As for the other, yeah I'm not so sure that firing 200-300 rounds (which is a soldiers standard combat load right?)as fast as physically possible is something you ever want to do. For that matter I'm surprised rounds weren't cooking off by the end of this test.

 

[Strings]

One thing's been bothering me about this system. We've worked most of the bugs out of the AR system, and those left we pretty much know how to deal with. It's available in FIVE calibers I can think of off the top of my head, and has an almost infinite versatility (issue rifle, designated marksman, SMG, SAW, carbine). So we're replacing it why? With a new system that we DON'T know the bugs of?

 

[Zak Smith]

'Cause it's made of the new wonder-material - PLASTIC, and shoots killer deathray bullets in 5.56mm, which will shatter all your bones if it hits your PINKY!

Oh wait, no, hold on a sec, I know..

It's because back-up iron sights are so 2003, no make that 1990's.. Face it, iron sights are just so 1890's.

The unified optic will certainly never become obsolete, and field replacement or special mission-specific equipment isn't required anymore.

We don't need to hang anything off our rifles, or mount anything on a universal low rail system. Night vision is so 1980's.

-z

 

[George Hill]

I don't know about the handguards, but I have burst the gas tube on a 16 with live rounds. It's one thing to glow like an arclight... illuminating your face... that's bad enough... but to have that glow burst up into your face. That was extremely annoying to say the least.

 

[c_yeager]

I recall reading somewhere that the original H&K design incorporated heat shields into the handguards to prevent this very problem. But, that they were delteted in the interest of saving weight. Since it appears that the melting occured during VERY intesnse firing and completely without any kind of heatshields that it would be a very easy problem to fix at least a lot easier than what it took to make the original M16 suitable for service.

 

[swingset]

I'm sick of these anti-XM8 threads.

Till I get my hands on one and shoot it, all this is so much fricking hot air. Worse was said about the AR, and mine are wonderful guns. People, I think, are mostly full of crap.

 

[Triad]

Andrew, what exactly does having to take your rifle outside of the range have to do with firing ten 30 round mags in 3-4 minutes?

 

[otomik]

So we're replacing it why? With a new system that we DON'T know the bugs of?

the h&k folks know something of the bugs since it's based on the G-36 adopted in 1996 by the bundeswehr. these are little BUGS as you've said and they shouldn't be compared with inherent FAULTS of the the direct gas inpingement system found in the AR-15 family. OTOH i doubt that is all the XM-8 project is about or they would have just adopted something like H&Ks gas-piston M4
http://www.hk-usa.com/pages/Military-LE/rifles-carbines/m4.html
i think they have further plans for this rifle

 

[gearbox]

One minor problem (yes, minor) and the naysayers come out.

HK has a great reputation. The ARs aren't as reliable as the G36 or XM8. Is that even debateable? Nobody's going to shoot off 10 mags worth in a few minutes. If they even tried, they were in a f***ed situation to begin with.
The downside to the XM8? A soldier gets lost long enough for his battery to run out. It happens rarely that one doesn't return base-side to rest, clean, re-load, re-charge. Even with the AR platform we'll still battery reliant a good portion of the time.

Keep they AR? Retro-fit the new gas system. Then it will be reliable and HK will have nothing on it, since there's so much already going for the M16s.