ya, well

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Just Jim

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Went to what the shop called a gun auction yesterday with the intention of talking to some factory reps that had a truck set up with a display of new stuff:D Anyway they had a rep from Lueopold scopes there and I lit into him about a pet peave I have developed.

I wanted my wife to buy me a range finder for my birthday but after looking at all brands it seems all are made in China now.:cuss: So in discussion with him he says they just can't comepete anymore so they have to buy from China.

Well guys when Ford first started making cars they paid their employees good money so there would be someone who could afford the cars. Companies who are selling out American jobs in the name of competition don't realize it is Americans that buy the products.

Someday I think everyone is going to stand there and look at the other guy who is unemployed and realize it all came with being too cheap to support American products and American jobs. If you want a better America start telling the makers that America comes first. Or join the ranks of the unemployed before long.:banghead:

jj
 
Ford and Chevy can't make better cars than Honda or Toyota even with the tariffs that drive up the price of an American car an average of $1,600.

They love those tariffs because it means they don't have to compete and offer higher-quality products. That's protectionism: corporate welfare. It doesn't do anyone any favors. It's like giving a homeless man $20 a day to live on, instead of investing some time and energy into getting him a job. It's like giving taxpayer subsidies to candlemakers because we feel bad for them, because light bulbs have become a more efficient means of illumination.

Such policies are condescending, and result in a static economy.

It's not about "getting a cheaper item." It's about quality, as well. Other countries can provide both, and the consumer, who recognizes that, is voting with their money. That's the way the market works, and there's nothing unjust about it.

-Sans Authoritas
 
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Its a fine line you walk with price v/s where it is built. In order to compete an american item is built more cheaply than the higher quality same priced over seas version.

So whats worth more to you a high quality long lasting item or an american made easily broken item for the same price?

Does not work this way all of the time but it does happen.
 
I refuse to support the maker of an inferior product on the grounds of nationalism. I follow quality, and if you don't have it, you don't have my money.

Protectivist laws meant to level the playing field just hurt the team that needs to become more competitive while shovelling unwanted second-rate product at the consumer.
 
So Just Jim....

After you finished fuming, what did you do? Did you acquiesce and buy one of the Chinese laser rangefinders, or are you honing your manual range estimation skills?

Inquiring minds want to know.

stellarpod
 
So buy an American made scope or one made anywhere you like. Ain't capitalism grand!
 
Ford and Chevy can't make better cars than Honda or Toyota even with the tariffs that drive up the price of an American car an average of $1,600.
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You do realize that the top selling rigs in America are made in America right?? Toyotas are made here and have the best quality.

jj
 
So whats worth more to you a high quality long lasting item or an american made easily broken item for the same price?
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There is a difference in Chinese quality and American, would you buy a Chinese Rolex? I got one for you to buy if you will give me Rolex price.

If not then why not??

jj
 
Did you acquiesce and buy one of the Chinese laser rangefinders, or are you honing your manual range estimation skills?
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The average deer has an 18 inch deep body. If you have a 4x scope with duplex crosshairs then take the horizontal wire and put it on the deers top back. If the thick part of the duplex touches his belly then he is 100 yards away. Further range is guestimation.

jj
 
I refuse to support the maker of an inferior product on the grounds of nationalism. I follow quality, and if you don't have it, you don't have my money.
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So lets understand what you are saying. Burris,leuopuld or what ever is made in China and you have no choice but to buy their products. There is no competition if it's all made in China it is just the same brand names.

Why not have one rifle maker make all rifles or one handgun maker make all the same guns if you choose to have one country produce it all??

jj
 
There is a difference in Chinese quality and American, would you buy a Chinese Rolex? I got one for you to buy if you will give me Rolex price.

If not then why not??
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Because
Does not work this way all of the time but it does happen
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Why not have one rifle maker make all rifles or one handgun maker make all the same guns if you choose to have one country produce it all??
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Well it works in South Korea its a company called DAEWOO they make everything
 
There is a difference in Chinese quality and American, would you buy a Chinese Rolex? I got one for you to buy if you will give me Rolex price.
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Chinese authorities already have started to eliminate fraudulent rings operating within and outside the nation in peddling false goods, tained pharmaceuticals, etc...

Just last month, over 100 members of a counterfeit ring was busted in Huabei. Over 30 were executed.

It takes a lot of effort to run a country as big as China, and our government is trying their best to eliminate these criminal enterprises. It is very difficult to do that while concentrating on so many other urgent national issues at the same time.

Have you heard President Hu Jintao speak last night on Xinhua? His voice is hoarse because he had spent so many sleepless nights focusing on national issues such as the Olympics. Being the leader of a nation is a tough and demanding job, with many responsibilities.
 
Sans Authoritas wrote:
Ford and Chevy can't make better cars than Honda or Toyota even with the tariffs that drive up the price of an American car an average of $1,600.
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Just Jim wrote:
You do realize that the top selling rigs in America are made in America right?? Toyotas are made here and have the best quality.
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Top-selling, yes. Artificially-created "top-selling," however. U.S. trucks are top-sellers in great part because the U.S. government's tariffs make shipping larger trucks economically prohibitive, compared to shipping smaller vehicles. The more vehicles you can cram onto a ship, the more money you make.

-Sans Authoritas
 
So you guys really think you are saveing money by buying Chinese goods. Lets just take Burris as a scope maker and they have the chinese make them for Burris. Burris price doesn't change they just make more profit off the cheap labor.

The money that is sent overseas is then used to compete in comodities like copper and lead which drives up the price of bullets. If you spend the money at home then your neighbor gets it and helps you pay taxes for schools and roads ect.

All the companies are doing is taking the future from your kids by selling America out today.

jj
 
Top-selling, yes. Artificially-created "top-selling," however. U.S. trucks are top-sellers in great part because the U.S. government's tariffs make shipping larger trucks economically prohibitive, compared to shipping smaller vehicles.
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There isn't anything artificial about Toyota quality, they are kicking everyones butt in selling cars. Wish they made guns. Alot of our trucks are mad in Mexico and Canada. All of those jobs were sold out years ago.

jj
 
Chinese authorities already have started to eliminate fraudulent rings operating within and outside the nation in peddling false goods, tained pharmaceuticals, etc...
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I spent some time in Iraq and everything there came from China right down to the clothes on their backs. You could buy Rolex watches 2 for $40 or any brand name you wanted for $40. Good looking copies but still fake.

How do you know you are even getting the real thing anymore when China copies everything. No different than couterfieting money. How long before all our goods come here couterfiet?? Allready we are being killed by phoney medicine.

Had a friend who was a helicopter pilot that got his back broke because of a phoney Chines bolt.

jj
 
The copying is done by large criminal enterprises within the country and funded by organized crime outside the country.

I wish that China never implemented economic freedom and remained hardline Communist. Life was MUCH better, my parents can attest to that and there was no such thing as corporate fraud and anything related to fraud.
 
Honda is 100% American made and Toyota has a plant here also. GE, Ford and Chevy chose to take advantage of Americans and moved the jobs to Mexico thanks to NAFTA. Now that we are buying economical cars like Civic and Prius that are still made here, the American auto industry doesnt know how to compete without making them fuel efficient. They dont want them fuel efficient because Big Oil owns shares of American Auto Manufacturers. BMW 325 is getting the same 35 MPG it was back in the 80s and it is seen as one of the more economical ones now. What happened? Cars that where fuel efficient like the Dodge Omni 49/39 MPG 3 yr run and pulled. They will start making them again once they see how hard of a hit they are gonna take this yr. Any car that has ever gotten over 40 MPG was not manufactured for more than 5 yrs
 
There isn't anything artificial about Toyota quality, they are kicking everyones butt in selling cars. Wish they made guns. Alot of our trucks are mad in Mexico and Canada. All of those jobs were sold out years ago.
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I was talking about the fact that U.S. trucks are top-selling (Fords, Chevies, and Dodges, primarily) vs. foreign trucks (not including Toyota, which, as you say, is made here.) And it's because of tariffs that make it economically unsound to ship larger trucks, not from an inability of foreign car manufacturers to make better-quality trucks than Fords, Chevies and Dodges.

-Sans Authoritas
 
Rachen,

Not sure if the post on China was sarcasm or not.

China is experiencing the pollution, filth and poverty that America had to suffer through during the industrial revolution here. Within 20 years, they will be much freer, and a much larger economic force to be reckoned with.

The Europeans who fled to this country in the 1850's to early 1900's came because for many different reasons: primarily because technological advances had made small-time farming unprofitable. It's sad in a way, it's how technology revolutionizes everything.

50 years ago in America, rivers near industrial plants were colored like the rainbow, and would sometimes catch fire due to all the pollutants being pumped into them. That's what China is undergoing now. It won't stay that way there, just as it didn't here.

-Sans Authoritas
 
Plus the price of diesel went up because they could sell it to Europe for $8 a gallon as most European cars are diesel and Europe ran short of diesel. That's why we have a high inflation rate on diesel.

If we don't talk to the gun companies and the scope companies we will all soon be useing parts from China that are worse than the mim parts here in the USA.

Time to let them know that America is worth more than the allmighty dollar and dealing with cheap foriegn goods is killing American lifestyles and culture.

Borders, language and culture is what will make our neighborhoods great. Time to get the manyfacturers to amke quality stuff here at home or don't buy from them.

jj
 
Just Jim,

I agree with you in some respects: the economy is driven by what people value, ranked by priority. Today, it seems that people value a higher quantity of stuff than being happy with the good things they have. Huge houses with no kids to fill them, new cars every 3 years, and new clothes every season seem to be what the mainstream American values these days.

But manufacturing jobs moving elsewhere is a good sign for an economy, overall. You don't see mobs of unemployed people, their jobs "taken" by foreigners, do you? Unemployment is still quite low. Sadly, over 18% of the employment is employment at the expense of your fellow men (government.)

When labor is freed up by unemployment, new opportunities are not far behind.

Remember: 90% of the jobs that exist today did not exist 100 years ago.

-Sans Authoritas
 
Just Jim:

I believe there is some philosophical truth in what you're stating. However unfortunately in the real world the time of choice has already passed, as in many instances there simply is no American-made choice in the particular commodity you're seeking. That's why I asked, somewhat tongue-in-cheek whether you acquiesced and bought the Chinese rangefinder. Frankly, we should all become more proficient making accurate range estimations without the technology and I'm glad you have that ability.

You noted in one of your early postings an observation about Henry Ford paying good enough wages to allow his employees to purchase his cars. Actually, it was at least as much an effort of keeping costs low as it was in paying high wages. Interestingly enough this month's issue of National Geographic is dedicated to the emerging Chinese market strength and the fact that the average wage in China is rising dramatically:

From National Geographic:

For three decades the economy has grown at an average annual rate of nearly 10 percent, and more people have been lifted out of poverty than in any other country, at any other time.... By most measures the nation is now the world's largest consumer, using more grain, meat, coal, and steel than the United States.
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and further:

China is expected to overtake the U.S. as the world's largest economy in ten years.
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and finally:

China produces - and consumes - nearly a third of the world's steel, more than longtime industrial powers Japan, Germany, and the United States combined.
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This is not your father's China...

As China's economy continues to grow, people experience more and more freedom (financial and otherwise) and they continue to increase their liquid assets allowing them the ability to spend money on frivolous luxuries, they will also rise to a point at which they cannot compete. In fact, it's already beginning, as India and Vietnam (among others) already beat China at it's own low-bid game.

Who knows where it will end. But one thing is for sure: the American public, spoiled to the whims of instant and cheap gratification will not likely willingly pay $1000 for an American-made laser rangefinder when they can buy one that works just as well with a "Made in China" sticker for $250. Heck, it even comes with good ol' American RealTree camo!

stellarpod
 
Just last month, over 100 members of a counterfeit ring was busted in Huabei. Over 30 were executed.
now thats deterence
 
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