Yikes! What? You're a Police Officer? But how? Really? Oh, man...

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XD40EZO

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Ok maybe its just the county that I live in, but outta curiousity...are Police Officers Trained (or somewhat trained) to use their FIREARMS? I'm talking about regular police officers and not SWATS.

Incident(s): TRUE STORIES

1. I met a police officer eating at a chinese restaurant as I wait for my order. I asked the PO about his carry, if they get to choose their sidearm... he said, "I don't even know what I carry" ...and then, he pulled it out, showed me the pistol (loaded I assume). I told him that it was a GLOCK, and he said, "Is that what this is?"

2. I got pulled over 3 weeks ago (for unsafe lane changed), stupid me with all my gun periodicals everywhere, gave it away that I was armed. The PO asked me if I have a gun, and I said yes. He asked me to pull it out with my weak hand. As I took it out of the bag, he noticed that the magazine wasn't there. He said, "How the heck are you gonna be ready if anything were to happen?" So I said, huh? But he kept talkin' about where to keep my gun and mags. And finally he said, "that's a pretty gun, is that a Beretta?" I said, no sir its a Taurus. We ended up talking more and not once he asked me for my CCL.

3. The shooter in the lane next to mine (at the range) was such a lousy shooter. I observed him for a little bit and noticed that he was anticipating for each "KABOOM", so he kept shooting low. Talked to him, and come to find out he's been in the force for 6 years. Yikes!

I'm not trying to put our PO's down, but I think I'd feel more secure if I know that they are getting the proper training. Just makes me wonder.

peace,
 
i know a number of officers and none got into the career for the guns and very few are actually shootersoff duty. most officers,you'll generally find arenot shooters are usually only shoot during the mandated times and for qualifications.
 
I thought for you to be a Police Officer, whatever position you aquire, you have to go through intensive FIREARM Training?
 
I train with a couple of area law enforcement agencies and I can tell you most are very competent, a few are very good, and some of them are pathetic. Of course, the guys that are pathetic get the most attention in the cop bashing circles.
 
One of my buddies told me they actually fired a handgun during his police training :eek:

I was a bit disturbed that they didn't get more range time and instruction, but budgets are finite after all - I guess you gotta cut corners somewhere.
 
I have watched most of my towns police force shoot, as they practice/qualify at the same range as I keep an annual pass at. Most of them are definately above average, a few are very good.

Then again, I live in a smaller town in a very gun-friendly state.
 
It is kind of disturbing that I live in one of the largest cities with a much higher crime rate...and my protectors can't shoot.

I think they need to invest more time in the range...
 
Used to be...

that cops were guys who liked guns, usually owned some prior to becoming a cop. Over the past few decades, this has changed.

Now, most cops are in the societal engineering department, and few have their own prior experience with firearms.

All agencies train their own officers on their departmental issued guns, on the (lawyer) approved course of fire. Then, if it ever comes out in court, the officer is a 'qualified' shooter. In wrongful and negligent death cases, what never gets mentioned is how basic the course of fire really is.

Law enforcement managers as a group know nothing about guns or shooting, and view guns and shooting as bad things (liabilities). The management really doesn't want cops to know much about guns; they think that will cut down on gun use, and therefore, lawsuits.
 
My ex wife has a friend who's husband is a PO for a local town in my area. Before the divorce the four of us got together at the PO's house. He just got home so his service belt with firearm was on the kitchen table. I asked him what he was carrying and he said a Sig. I asked which one and indicated that I had a 229. He looked a little confused and said that his was a 229 as well. He pulled it out and it was a 226. Ok, so he mixed that one up a little.

When we got to dinner I asked him what they carried in the trunk when out on patrol. He said a shotgun. Ok, maybe I should of stopped here but I had to know. I again ask what kind. Again, indicated he didn't know. He described it to me and I indicated that it sounded like a Marine Magnum.

I think he was getting a little insecure with the gun questions because he started talking about the time he shot his friends "AR-13". :confused: Um, I promptly changed the subject away from guns at that point as I didn't want to say anything (or hear) more.

From what I've heard, he is an excellent officer and I am in no way putting him down. He just has no clue about firearms. Not sure it that is exactly a good thing or not though.
 
As I took it out of the bag, he noticed that the magazine wasn't there. He said, "How the heck are you gonna be ready if anything were to happen?" So I said, huh?
Click to expand...

I'm guessing you weren't carrying then and that was the only readily accessible gun... which makes him right, though. There isn't much more out there that's more worthless than an unloaded gun. ;-)
 
There was this big hazzle about the police pistol ammunition change here. From standard FMJ's to hollow points (Speer Dot Gold's or something). "Oh, it's so damaging to the human body, they are inhuman for this" and such.
They asked a (female, by the way; no implications here) cop if she knew what the ammo did as opposed to the one they used before. She didn't have a clue. I mean, it was right there. A 9mm bullet with a big cavity on the top. No clue.
Isn't that kind of disturbing? It means she (and they) doesn't know anything about ballistics either. Shot placement? Skill? Who knows, but she's the one carrying the gun.
 
The ammunition budget is the smallest, and the first thing to get cut in a crunch, along with all the other officer training. Backwards as it is, it's also the truth. Most of the time the budget is decided by people who don't know anything about police work, and don't really care until they are sued.

It doesn't help much either that ammo is so overpriced. When I can pay retail for components and load a box of whatever I want for $4 a box, you can't tell me that the big three can't put out the same thing for at least that cheap and still make money.
 
I train with a couple of area law enforcement agencies and I can tell you most are very competent, a few are very good, and some of them are pathetic. Of course, the guys that are pathetic get the most attention in the cop bashing circles.
Click to expand...
Emphasis added.

In my training the only thing that got more training time than firearms and use of force/Defensive Tactics was the legal training. Each agent fired thousands of rounds on the range, and there was scenario based training that often involved shooting in which Simunitions FX rounds were used. Did some people barely pass? Yes, but they were less than 5% of the class. The other 95% were shooting VERY well.

This BS on the gun forums about most cops being lousy shots is a myth. Cops are like the rest of society, some like to shoot as a hobby, some don't. Some are great, and some are lousy.

It is important to note that there is MUCH more to being a cop than being a good shot.
 
I dunno guys, my lil' baby brother has probably 25 years in as a LEO and I wouldn't want the sucker shooting at me. Course, he's a gun nut too.
 
Can't speak for cops everywhere but my neighbor has a range where the local accademy trains. He used a row of round bales for a backstop and they couldn't hit it. So he had sto stack them two high. Hmm.... can't hit a 5 foot target at 15 yards, yep I feel safe.
Matt
 
There is a State trooper at the range I shoot at who is an AMAZING shot. I mean AMAZING.

On the other hand...
I asked a Somerville cop what he carried on duty and all he knew is it was a Smith and Wesson.:rolleyes:
 
I recently helped the local DPS Firearms Instructor design and setup his qualification course. IT was a pretty decent dynamic course. Got to watch the guys run it. I wasn't allowed to shoot it:( These guys as a group were very good. A few were standouts.

I have shot with several of the local S.O. Also a good group, a few that I would say are poor. But 75% or more are quite capable.

I was at the range the last time the City Police force did their annual :confused: qualifying. They stand 15ft from target. Draw, empty their weapon, congratulate themselves, walk off the line. Some grouped 18" at 15ft.:what:

Terrible. But they receive almost no training. No budget.

Smoke
 
I'm sure it depends on the area and to some degree may be a generational thing too, but in general I haven't been too impressed. When I was younger and first got my permit, my brother shot on a local pistol team and invited me to go a few times. Many of the shooters were local cops and it was actually somewhat scary how bad they were. I know my brother had complete contempt for most of them. Not so long ago I had an "incident" involving a traffic stop and police officers. What shouldn't have been a big deal turned into one because I was carrying a (licensed) handgun. At one point the officer who I gave my gun to was (I am NOT making this up) actually on his knees on the ground wrestling w/ my gun trying to get it unloaded. This was a VERY basic modern handgun type, not some esoteric older design (I shudder to think if I had been carrying one of my 1911's instead of being headed for the range--somebody probably would have gotten shot). They also seemed to have NO idea how a pistol permit works here, since they took me in because I had it loaded and its illegal to have aloaded firearm in a vehicle. I tried tot ell them I have apistol permit which allows me fully carry, in a vehicle or not, but they apparently had no idea. When we got to the station to "clear this up" the guy was looking at my permit and made some comment like "so you have lots of guns...one of those gun nut types, eh...?". Eventually they apparently managed to get ahold of a district attorney or SOMEBODY who actually knew the law and told them yes, it was perfectly legal for me to have a loaded handgun with me in a vehicle.

I must say the scariest part wasn't just being treated like a criminal, but that they obviously had nearly no firearms knowledge, or knowledge of the law as it pertained to pistol permits etc. Clearly, though, it was deemed very suspicious that I would own guns, and certainly that I would have one in my possession.

I actually ended up trading that handgun as the image of some stranger mishandling it sort of tainted it in my eyes...:(
 
This has been discussed on this board numerous times. :)

The good ones can be really good. The bad ones can be amazingly bad.

I know of one local guy who managed to leave the slide of his Beretta Couger in his holster, and he just drew the frame at a qualification. The gun only left his holster twice a year for the qualifier. Other people in his same agency couldn't draw their guns because they had rusted into their duty holsters.

On the other hand I know some deputies who come out and shoot competition with us, and I promise that they are seriously good, and are at the top of my list of people not to get into a gunfight against. :)

As Ben said, many of the departments around here are pretty proficient though. This is a pretty firearms oriented part of the country, not like the NY example above.
 
The handful of cops I've seen at the public range here have been good shots. Of course, they are on the range on their own time, with their own guns, so they are the ones that are into guns.

I fear what could happen if I ever have to hand my loaded CCW to a cop during a traffic stop, if said cop happens to be one of the "other ones". I've heard reports of cops NDing civilian owned guns in such circumstances, and I would certainly repeat about 20x that the gun is loaded and would he like me to clear it before handing it to him. The fact of the matter is that cops DO represent a fairly normal cross section of society, and I wouldn't feel any more comfortable handing my loaded gun to a cop than I would handing my loaded gun to any other total stranger.
 
Not to drift the thread, but the award for firearms incompetency and all around poor gun handling still goes to the mainstream bozo on a public gun range. Yeah, I know it's apples to oranges because we expect more (and deserve better) from our law enforcement officers.
 
Met a group of Border Patrol agents at the outdoor, not long ago. Years on the force, according to one of them. Same one snaps a mag into his Sig 228 WHILE POINTING UP-RANGE and WITH HIS FINGER ON THE TRIGGER.

Can't argue with that kind of experience.
 
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