You know how Illinois blames lax Indiana gun laws for its gun crime? Yeah, it's a li

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Justin, Jul 15, 2013.

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  1. Justin

    Justin Moderator Emeritus

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    THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL
  2. MErl

    MErl Member

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    Average time between initial gun sale and trace: 12 years... cool down periods, one gun a month, etc are really expected to affect crime?
     
  3. Black Butte

    Black Butte Member

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    "Illinois blames lax Indiana gun laws for it's gun crime."

    If Indiana passed strict gun bans, Illinois politicians would simply blame Texas. Everyone knows where the illegal guns are, but Illinois politicians lack the stones to go into Chicago and take them from the gang bangers. Either that or they simply want an excuse to strip Constitutionally protected freedoms away from law-abiding citizens.
     
  4. medalguy

    medalguy Member

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    Interesting. The largest age group for recovered guns was 50+. Didn't see that one coming.
     
  5. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    I would think that any attorney preparing a motion to start a lawsuit against Illinois or Chicago/Cook county would find these numbers to be invaluable, and unimpeachable considering the source. I presume the “other side” will try to support their position on the basis that the statute is necessary to preserve Public Health and Safety, and numbers such as these will cut much of the ground from underneath them. :evil:
     
  6. gbran

    gbran Member

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    There is only one factor that drives crime statistics and it is not gun control or lack thereof. It is entirely dependant on the number of available criminals a given locale has.
     
  7. preachnhunt

    preachnhunt Member

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    22 "machine guns"?!
     
  8. MErl

    MErl Member

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    some folks don't care as much about NFA requirements...

    Though I suppose that could be one way the transferable list is slowly shrinking.
     
  9. JERRY

    JERRY Member

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    this just in, Mexico blames its gun crimes on lax American DOJ gun schemes.
     
  10. Delford

    Delford Member

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    Five deaths by shooting and 24 injuries in Chicago on July 4th weekend. More gun control needed!

    Really?
     
  11. Bill50

    Bill50 Member

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    Only 1-2 legally owned registered machine guns have ever been used in a crime by its owner. I doubt that there are 22 stolen registered machine guns in 1 state in 1 year.

    If these were stolen, legally owned machine guns, the media would be all over this.
     
  12. happygeek

    happygeek Member

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    There's something else you'll notice in that report; on page 2 the ATF clearly states that not all the guns were used in crimes, local LE decides what to submit, and the sample is not representative. Then you'll notice that on page 6 they list the reasons for the traces (when local LE gave the ATF a reason, the ATF states on page 2 that they're not always given a reason). Only 165 traces were related to homicide, 165 related to robbery, and 300 related to assault ... out of a total # of traces of 11,681.

    I bring this up because our elitist self appointed Mayor and his group base their claims of "trafficked" guns off these same ATF reports (http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/downloads/pdf/trace_the_guns_report.pdf). The other glaring issue with his claims are that in the ATF reports they're listing the state the gun was orginally sold by a 01 FFL in. In other words if a guy buys his shotgun in Indiana, later moves to IL, is arrested for selling weed, the local LE finds said shotgun in his home and submits the serial # to the ATF for a trace ... then according to MAIG that gun was "trafficked".

    Combined with the average 'time to crime' in IL being 12.86 years, I don't think I'm going very far out on a limb with my guess that a lot of these "trafficked" guns are really drug dealers who moved.
     
  13. HOOfan_1

    HOOfan_1 Member

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    More GANG control needed. Blaming guns for Chicago's violence is like blaming the guillotine for the French Revolution.

    Mexico blames the US for their violence, New York blames Virginia and other free states for their violence. Hey maybe it is the scum that lives in those place pulling the trigger which are the real problem....
     
  14. ghitch75

    ghitch75 Member

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    the state of Chicago needs to blame Chicago for there so called gun problem not Indiana....:banghead:
     
  15. TheOld Man

    TheOld Man Member

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    RE: "Stolen" machine guns...It is also possible some of these were "Stolen" from Communist countries i.e. bring backs/ battlefield pick ups from 'nam, sandbox,etc.
    I know we had a Japanese sword and a flag my father got on some stinking little island. They were tossed out after he died.
     
  16. Nickel Plated

    Nickel Plated Member

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    I'm gonna assume none of those 22 machine guns is a legal NFA item. Either smuggled in across the border, or built somewhere in the US and sold in Chicago. I mean a simple SMG or select fire AR15 aren't particularly hard to make and would probably bring in a decent profit on the street for anyone who wants to get into that.
    If you're gonna be slinging crack, might as well get your buddy who's good with a drill press and doesn't ask questions to finish off some 80% lowers and sell M16s on the side too.
     
  17. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    The Antis do this all the time. Vermont is blamed as the source for firearms into New York. New Hampshire is blamed for Massachusetts, Pennsylvania is blamed for New Jersey and so on. It is just their reasoning for "OUR gun laws aren't the problem, its this neighboring state."
     
  18. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    10 machine guns traced in KY. I would love to know the details of those. Wonder how many of those were shoestrings?
     
  19. Pilot

    Pilot Member

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    Just like Camden, NJ blames its "gun violence" on lax PA gun laws. Well what about the gang bangers, and thugs using ILLEGAL guns to commit violent crime? They are not at fault?
     
  20. kludge

    kludge Member

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    Perpetual victimhood is how you divert blame and never have to face your own issues or come up with your own solutions. The solution is always out of reach because you are not in control of anything that affects you. This is the mentality of victimhood and the danger of blame.

    Chicago can never have safe streets because guns are "so easy to get in Indiana." It doesn't matter that three times the number of crime guns originate within their own state, it's an Indiana problem, we're the victim and we can't do anything about it. (Newsflash: we have to follow the same federal laws that people in Illinois have to follow.)

    So... just how many of those people 1000 or so people who were caught with a gun that came from Indiana, across state lines illegally were ever prosecuted under federal gun laws?

    Two?

    What good does it do to have federal laws that we don't prosecute? Is it to reduce *real* crime or is it to control the law-abiding with the threat of a 10 year sentence?
     
  21. blarby

    blarby Member

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    Crimes ?

    Ahem.

    By all rights, more than likely a folded steel katana, if it was brought back from the SP in WWII.

    Throwing THAT away is far worse than tapping an NFA receiver full of holes. And it was by choice !:barf::banghead::barf:
     
  22. il.bill

    il.bill Member

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    You know how Illinois blames lax Indiana gun laws for it's gun crime?

    That is a new one on me. Maybe I do not get out enough, but in my sixty+ years of living in Illinois never once have I heard or seen anyone here ever say that 'Illinois blames lax Indiana gun laws for it's gun crime'.

    Is there a legitimate reference that you can supply, or is it simply something everybody (except at least some of the people living here) knows?
     
  23. Charger442

    Charger442 Member

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    there could be a lot of "stolen" machine guns that were legally made and registered here in the US. If someone robs an 07/SOT that has a bunch of post-dealer sample guns, they would be in his FFL books but they are not transferable to regular citizens.

    i would be skeptical if all the stolen FA guns were fully transferable pre-86 registered guns.
     
  24. jim243

    jim243 Member

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    50+ year old gang bangers? Really??? More like Al's and Frank Nitti's group than the Peace Stone Rangers or Black Panthers. Sounds more like aged and decrepit motorcycle gang members than gangbangers. 25 % from Indiana that was a surprise as was the number from Michigan. And half of all guns recovered where in the city of Chicago, a town without a single gun store. (LOL)

    Interesting report, nice going AFT.

    Jim
     
  25. silicosys4

    silicosys4 Member

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    Many WW2 katana's were regular steel, machine made and issued. Although it was popular for officers to carry antique swords passed down by their families which were quiet valuable, I think the majority of katana's encountered by our troops were issued, meant to be more decorative and confidence-inspiring than functional and generally don't retain the value that the older, handmade swords do. Not to say there's not a collectors market and that they aren't valuable, but odds are it wasn't a priceless example of a folded blade. If I remember right, most true folded swords were collected by the government and melted down when they modernized and the tribal "samurai" image/lifestyle fell out of favor in light of a more unified japan under one emperor. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    That said, if you have an old katana, don't throw it away without getting it looked at by someone who knows something about them, lol.

    On a similar note to the OP's post,
    Chicago just voted an assault rifle and high capacity magazine ban. Those drive by's should really slow down now that those people realize they can now get an additional weapons charge in addition to the murder, attempted murder and weapons charges they would have gotten before the ban! Safe at last.

    http://news.yahoo.com/video/chicago-city-council-passes-assault-224900465.html
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2013
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