You know it's time to panic. . . (Zip Guns)

[edwardware]

when the Zip guns show up with Banana mags!



Linky.

Now you can't unsee that! So there.

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

I thought you were going to say that even the Zip guns were selling out.

The zip .22 would've been much better suited if it was just sold as a under-barrel attachment for your rifles. Although this would make it a NFA item (I think?) it still was a valid niche.

 

[mokin]

I think I saw Iian review/test that pistol on "Forgotten Weapons." If it is that pistol, it is fitted with the rail to attach to a long arm. That would make it a NFA item.

 

[edwardware]

I think I saw Iian review/test that pistol on "Forgotten Weapons."

Yup. I don't believe it made 5 consecutive rounds without a jamb. . . makes the extended mag ironic.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

US Fire Arms USFA had actually made a name for itself making decent clones of the Colt SSA revolver.

Then the owner got the idea that a bull pup pistol using Ruger 10-22 magazines was the wave of the future. He sold his machine tools needed to make steel six shooters to buy injection molding equipment to make the frames of the ZiP .22 pistol.

The few people who bought them posted YouTube demos that convinced me what a bad idea it was. The bolt handles for retracting the bolt to load rounds or clear the frequent jams are pushrods near the muzzle. I can't unforget that design feature.

Sad thing is USFA lost so much invested in the ZiP .22 the company folded.

Business lesson.I you have a successful product, don't totally abandon it for a pipe dream. Keep the successful product on the side if the pipe dream goes up in smoke.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I am amazed that ATF did not declare the ZiP .22 to be an AOW disguised gun (like the pen gun, cane gun, wallet gun). It takes awhile to realize a ZiP .22 is a firearm.

And as an add-on to an AR-15, would I want to pay a $200 tax to make a $100 pistol into an SBR?

 

[edwardware]

I am amazed that ATF did not declare the ZiP .22 to be an AOW disguised gun. . .

It's not disguised (as something else), it's just unrecognizable.

The Lifecard goes in the other direction; it's disguised, but must be deployed (opened), so it's ok.

 

[TTv2]

I thought you were going to say that even the Zip guns were selling out.

The zip .22 would've been much better suited if it was just sold as a under-barrel attachment for your rifles. Although this would make it a NFA item (I think?) it still was a valid niche.

Would be legal if used under barrel of an AR pistol.

 

[edwardware]

US Fire Arms USFA had actually made a name for itself making decent clones of the Colt SSA revolver.

I've had the opportunity to handle a USFA repro of a Henry Nettleton SAA. The quality was unbelievable, probably the most carefully finished firearm I've ever handled (very carefully).

They made great stuff when the owner was on his meds.

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

Would be legal if used under barrel of an AR pistol.

So when you attach a under rifle, it becomes a NFA device on the fact that you're attaching a stock to it and so the ZIP .22 in this case becomes the tax stamped firearm, not the already existing rifle? If it's a AR pistol, this doesn't qualify because it's already on a handgun setup?
I thought it had something to do with adding multiple firearms to a single rifle.

 

[Mauser lover]

So when you attach a under rifle, it becomes a NFA device on the fact that you're attaching a stock to it and so the ZIP .22 in this case becomes the tax stamped firearm, not the already existing rifle? If it's a AR pistol, this doesn't qualify because it's already on a handgun setup?
I thought it had something to do with adding multiple firearms to a single rifle.

You are attaching a stock to a pistol (or a pistol-ish-thing, in this case) so it (the zip) becomes a short-barreled rifle.

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

You are attaching a stock to a pistol (or a pistol-ish-thing, in this case) so it (the zip) becomes a short-barreled rifle.

wish more people would attach their zip 22s to their rifles

 

[Antihero]

I will never understand how this gun came to be, it's hideous

 

[Carl N. Brown]

The bulk of the bolt is ahead of the barrel firing chamber, like the Uzi.
The bolt part behind the barrel firing chamber is actually shorter than the length of the cartridge, which may account for some of the function problems.
The design is highly dependent on the geometry of the Ruger 10-22 magazine and I suspect any successful firing of the ZiP .22 should be credited to the well-designed Ruger rotary magazine.

TTv2 Post #8: Would be legal if used under barrel of an AR pistol.
Hmmmmmm.
I wonder how a ZiP .22 would work under my "Space Gun" (Charter Explorer II AR-7 pistol)?

I am not averse to creating "range toys" for funsies.
Since this photo was taken I did attach a laser sight to the left side of the scope with a 3/4 / 1 inch scope ring (Anyone remember those?).


Added: "Space Gun" might be useful for sniping edible game at a water hole. Otherwise a very clumsy pistol even when the long eye relief pistol scope is removed. Which is why I added a laser sight. Very reliable with CCI MiniMag HV RN CP. (I suspect the original AR-7 was designed and tested at ArmaLite division of Fairchild corporation with military M24 air crew survival weapon .22 LR cartridge, a hypervelocity cartridge with FMJ 40.5 gr bullet and 2.5gr powder charge.)

Adding a jamomatic ZiP .22 to Space Gun would be really stuck on stupid. But funny.

 

[WestKentucky]

And as an add-on to an AR-15, would I want to pay a $200 tax to make a $100 pistol into an SBR?

that’s the question of the decade. There are tons of people with higher quality handguns which have a rail. There are fairly cheap ($20 or so) adapters to mount optics or whatnot on the top side of a gun, and that can easily be used to mount a pistol to a rail on a rifle or carbine. The point of putting a jam-o-matic 22 under a rifle escapes me, but I did think that might be the purpose when I first saw them.

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

The point of putting a jam-o-matic 22 under a rifle escapes me, but I did think that might be the purpose when I first saw them.

It would be the only purpose I'd ever use them for. But the Jam-o-matic nature of the zip.22 basically only ensures one shot, and not even a accurate one. So if you really needed to get another shot off in a faster time than reloading your rifle/carbine, just draw your pistol.

 

[TTv2]

You are attaching a stock to a pistol (or a pistol-ish-thing, in this case) so it (the zip) becomes a short-barreled rifle.

No, it becomes an SBR when attached to a rifle because a rifle has a buttstock. Attaching a pistol to another pistol regardless of whether it has a brace or not cannot make it into a rifle and thus an SBR.

 

[Mauser lover]

No, it becomes an SBR when attached to a rifle because a rifle has a buttstock. Attaching a pistol to another pistol regardless of whether it has a brace or not cannot make it into a rifle and thus an SBR.

Isn't that what I was saying? If you are attaching a rifle to a pistol, you are attaching a stock (from the rifle) to the pistol, thereby making that pistol (zip) an SBR because the barrel of the zip is less than 16 inches, and it now has a stock on it.

 

[JN01]

I am amazed that ATF did not declare the ZiP .22 to be an AOW disguised gun (like the pen gun, cane gun, wallet gun)

That's because it was a POS disguised as a gun.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

"The point of putting a jam-o-matic 22 under a rifle escapes me, but I did think that might be the purpose when I first saw them."

That was actually suggested by USFA as a use of their ZiP .22. Without mentioning the NFA implications.

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

Without mentioning the NFA implications.

Because that would've hindered it's sellibility.

If I found a Zip .22 for 50 bucks and I had a AR that I could use a under attachment for, I'd probably do it.