You worry about Bears... read this!

[Deaf Smith]

Massad Ayoob, in the Backwoodsman, has a blog and he linked to an article on defense from bears with guns. Very enlightening.

The man, Larry Mudgett, wrote the article. Amazing how many handguns are used to defend people from bears and how successful they are!


http://www.marksmanshipmatters.com/dangerous-predators-stopped-with-handguns/

Notice quite a few .45 ACP and .40 S&Ws used. Even 9mm! Knives to!

But the upshot was, as long as you have about 4 ft to 6 ft of penetration of hide, muscle and organs, then the gun should be able to do IF the shooter can shoot.

And yes, pepper spray has many faults.... and the stats are skewed cause many rangers merely use the spray to drive off bears being nuances and not real attacks.

Deaf

 

[Sammael94]

Good article, thanks for sharing it. I have long suspected that a .45 acp would be suitable defense against a bear, it's nice to get a little vindication. However, I think I may stick with the .44, because it's there, why not use it, right?

 

[larbear]

I think that it all depends on Bears size. 9mm might work for little Black bears but the more substantial Griz, browns and Polars you would best be advised for bigger guns. Low end I would think 44 mag. When I roam the mountains Im thinking 45-70. Bad and mad bears can ruin your day.

 

[LoneGoose]

Great article. Reminds me of that article I read where a bear had killed and partially eaten a guy. The rangers found the bear, killed it, and in its stomach - along with human parts - they found the hiker's .357. Investigation of the bear's head showed that the hiker had shot the bear in the head six times, but none of the bullets penetrated the skull. Wow, a bad day.

 

[stoky]

Larry Mudgett was one of my Gunsite instructors.
These were Gunsite bear rules:
Be alert.
Take bears seriously. They are not cuddly.
Never enter bear country on foot without a powerful firearm and the skill to use it well. (If this is not permitted, do not go.)
Do not pitch your camp on a bear thoroughfare, most particularly along the banks of a stream full of fish.
Be alert.

 

[ThomasT]

Massad Ayoob, in the Backwoodsman,

Nope. Ayoob writes for backwoodshome not the Backwoodsman magazine. The Backwoodsman is a better magazine in my opinion.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Larry Mudgett was one of my Gunsite instructors.
These were Gunsite bear rules:
Be alert.
Take bears seriously. They are not cuddly.
Never enter bear country on foot without a powerful firearm and the skill to use it well. (If this is not permitted, do not go.)
Do not pitch your camp on a bear thoroughfare, most particularly along the banks of a stream full of fish.
Be alert.

Dang good rules!

Oh, and I remember reading about a Canadian man, with a 30/30, killing the largest brown bear in Canada after it charged him near his house. One shot. He said if he had used one of his 'bear guns' he would have been too slow. That 30/30 carbine was fast handling and he dropped the bear something like 15 feet from him. One shot in the noggen with plain 30/30 softpoint ammo.

Deaf

 

[Blacksmoke]

This is the time of year Black Bears are around the house feeding on the neighbor's apples and the chokecherries. I notice scat every morning. They do not come up to the house but I keep a Mossberg Slugster handy at night with a shell in the chamber. I sleep with the doors and windows open for ventilation with just half screen doors closed and fastened.

Walking along the irrigation canal in the dense brush I carry a Krag carbine because it is what I have in the truck. I do have a Redhawk but keep it in the safe. I have aged to a point I feel more confident with a long gun. Guess I should stick with to the other forums!

 

[stoky]

Alaska Bear Tales by Larry Kaniut is a good read. It's a collection of stories about encounters with bears, from the humorous to the horrible. I think he as a sequel out now too.

 

[farm23]

I have some experience with hunting in Brown Bear country and have had to shoot in self defense. I have used both a 44 mag and a 454. The 454 is the better one. Pepper spray is worthless. My daughter carries pepper spray when running but also a 9mm. We live in a remote area and the danger is mostly from feral dogs and coyotes.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Nice read, thanks for the share.

One has to wonder though, how much of this second hand info is legit.

The only two pistols I own currently are 9mm, so if I ever found myself walking through bear country it'd be my fullsize 20+1 in FMJ, although I'd much prefer a .44 Mag.

 

[murf]

Go to americanhunter.org, on page three of their recent articles is one on an Alaskan guide that killed a grizzly with a 9mm handgun.

murf

 

[Leanwolf]

LONE GOOSE - " ... Reminds me of that article I read where a bear had killed and partially eaten a guy. The rangers found the bear, killed it, and in its stomach - along with human parts - they found the hiker's .357. Investigation of the bear's head showed that the hiker had shot the bear in the head six times, but none of the bullets penetrated the skull. Wow, a bad day."

The bear -- Griz or Black? -- took six rounds of .357 Mag to the noggin, still killed and ate the shooter ... and swallowed his .357 Magnum revolver?!

I would really like to read that story and find out if it were verified as to actually happening because I can not imagine hitting a charging bear six times in the head with a .357 and it doing no damage. Plus, I'd really like to know how a bear could swallow a .357 Magnum revolver.

Just wondering.

L.W.
____________

 

[il.bill]

I do apologize, but I cannot help but share this article about bears and handguns from a few years back. It made me feel better about one of my smaller 'carry' handguns ...


Woman Stops Grizzly Attack With .25 Cal Pistol
3/8/13

This is a story of self control and marksmanship with an itsy bitsy shooter by a woman against a fierce predator. What is the smallest caliber you trust to protect yourself?

Try the Beretta Jetfire Model 950B in caliber .25 ACP!


"While hiking in Alberta Canada with my boy- friend we were surprised by a huge grizzly bear charging us from out of nowhere.

She must have been protecting her cubs because she was extremely aggressive. If I hadn't had my Beretta Jetfire 950B pistol with me I wouldn't be here today!

Just one shot to my boyfriend's knee cap was all it took; the bear got him and I was able to escape by just walking away at a brisk pace.

It's one of the best pistols in my collection!"

 

[bassdogs]

The bear -- Griz or Black? -- took six rounds of .357 Mag to the noggin, still killed and ate the shooter ... and swallowed his .357 Magnum revolver?!

I would really like to read that story and find out if it were verified as to actually happening because I can not imagine hitting a charging bear six times in the head with a .357 and it doing no damage. Plus, I'd really like to know how a bear could swallow a .357 Magnum revolver.

Just wondering.

L.W.
____________

Agree, the story is suspect. Sounds more like a story told by some guy my friends cousin knows. It is very unlikely that you would be able to get 6 shots off on a charging bear and if you did, get all of them in the head and then not hit an open eye socket or directly into the nose or mouth. Really???

 

[Kendal Black]

I can at least see in my mind's eye six .357's not working. They skid off the skull and graze under the skin. You see that in human shootings sometimes. The bear has comparatively more skull and less brain.

A canny Canadian advised me that the way to deal with a large brown bear is to break his shoulder with twelve gauge slugs while shouting for everyone else to get a clear shot.

It is a little like the birdshot for defense discussion recently here concluded. A pistol might work, but why would you bet on 'maybe'?

 

[OC-Trainer]

@Deaf Smith,
Can you please link the definitive study on the subject of bear attacks on humans, that show (empirical data) that firearms are superior to bear deterrent? Thanks!

 

[OC-Trainer]

I have some experience with hunting in Brown Bear country and have had to shoot in self defense. I have used both a 44 mag and a 454. The 454 is the better one. Pepper spray is worthless. My daughter carries pepper spray when running but also a 9mm. We live in a remote area and the danger is mostly from feral dogs and coyotes.

How confident are you that "pepper spray is worthless," farm23? I'm looking for subjects for some experimentation.

 

[Leanwolf]

KENDAL BLACK - " ... I can at least see in my mind's eye six .357's not working. They skid off the skull and graze under the skin. You see that in human shootings sometimes. The bear has comparatively more skull and less brain. "

I can't imagine that if a person were accurate enough and cool enough in such a high stress situation to put six .357 bullets into a charging bear's head, that at least one of the bullets would not have been into the bear's nose or mouth... which would channel the bullet directly into the brain. Immediate stop.

I have a Black bear skull here in my office of a 400 lb. Black bear I killed in Calif., several years ago. (B&C measured 18 15/16") It was not charging but the structure of the bones shows how a bullet into the nose or mouth of a charging bear would be more likely to take a bullet than six "grazes." From the many videos I've watched, a bear, Griz or Black, charges with his head up, not down, therefore his nose and mouth are far more targetable than the top of his head.

I also wonder at what range the guy started shooting at the bear that he would have the time to make six head shots with a .357 Mag., given how incredibly fast a bear charges. (??)

If the hiker were killed and eaten and no one else was around, how was it determined he fired six and hit the bear's head with all six. "Skid marks?"

Also would really like to know how a bear could completely swallow a .357 Mag. revolver. (???) I do not think it would be too appetizing, even to a bear.

I am not questioning the original poster, just the story he posted. I'd really like to see some official verification of the story.

L.W.

 

[WestKentucky]

We have all heard the unconfirmed story of the hunter putting a (insert round) into a bears noggin only to knock him out for a while, then the kill was actually made while field dressing the bear and finding a beating heart.

One thing is for sure, more power on target gives better odds of inflicting an effective stopping injury to the bear. A 2nd cousin of mine got a job because his predecessor was killed by a polar bear raiding the trash. Once he learned what happened to that guy he flew into anchorage and bought a raging bull 454 Casull which was the smallest round recommended by the gun shop. I think he said they recommended 12 ga alternating between buck and slug.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Nice to hear that the 45 ACP can be effective. BTW, I still believe shot placement is everything.

 

[buck460XVR]

While I believe handguns can be effective against bear and there are many classic examples of even marginal calibers killing bears and saving lives in the last 50 years, the article is blatantly biased toward the use of handguns for protection from dangerous game. Here's an example

As the bear pressed the attack the man shot it several times with his .22 RimFire (RF) S&W revolver. Needless to say the puny bullets had no immediate effect and the man was killed by the bear. This is the only case I have come across where a victim attempted to defend himself with a handgun and was in fact killed by a bear.

really?

None of us would really doubt that a 100lb wolf could be put down with a .44 mag, that feral dogs could be killed by a .45 Colt shooting 250 gr LSWCs or that a pit bull could be put down with a .38 special. None of this is shocking evidence. This is clearly an article written whose sole purpose is to promote the " two-day class on Predator Defense " advertised at the end of the article. One needs to take it for what it is.

 

[OC-Trainer]

This is clearly an article written whose sole purpose is to promote the " two-day class on Predator Defense " advertised at the end of the article.

Exactly and well said. The article is based on hearsay with an obvious bias, while ignoring the facts. Where are the sources? They also conveniently ignore the most extensive study on the subject matter that completely "shoots holes" (pardon the pun) in what they are saying.

 

[TomJ]

Attached is a link to an article written by Tim Sundles regarding guns for animal defense. Being born and raised in Chicago, I know pretty much nothing about bears. In June I took my sons to Glacier National Park, where we did a lot of hiking. In planning the trip it became clear pretty quickly that potential run ins with bears needed to be addressed. I bought bear spray, and given that we want to make these trips annually going forward I traded one of my safe queens for a Ruger 454 Casull. I thought I was being over protective until we saw a number of bears, fortunately from a safe distance and secondly, the day after we left a bicyclist was attacked and killed by a grizzly near the park. A link to that story is attached below as well. I'll let people more experienced in this than me make caliber recommendations, but when I saw the size of those grizzlies I was happy to have a larger caliber gun.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/01/us/bear-kills-cyclist/index.html

http://buffalobore.net/Trail&CampGuns.pdf

 

[Malamute]

Agree, the story is suspect. Sounds more like a story told by some guy my friends cousin knows. It is very unlikely that you would be able to get 6 shots off on a charging bear and if you did, get all of them in the head and then not hit an open eye socket or directly into the nose or mouth. Really???

Ive seen eye sockets mentioned a number of times in regards to bears. I have to ask why its deemed a viable target other than possibly blinding the bear in that eye.

The concept seems rooted in a mistaken understanding of bear skull construction. The eye sockets are entirely outside the brain box. Nothing at all like human skulls, which seems to be the impression that bear and human skulls are similar.