I am not sure what is so worrisome about the position that .327FM can not match what a larger cartridge can do at the top end, while showing a capability at the lower end for lesser recoil. Or that when .327FM matches a particular .38/.357 cartridge performance, it requires more pressure and/or muzzle blast & noise to do so. I smell dogma, while others smell heresy, I suspect.
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Comparing Federal's 100grn .327 FM offering to .38 +P offerings by Buffalo Bore and Underwood is not even close to an apples to apples comparison. A more even comparison would be Buffalo Bore's .327 FM cartridge in 130 gr HC Keith to their .38 +P in 158 grn HC Keith. When you compare both rounds in 3 inch SP101s the story is a little different. MV and energy favor the .327. TKO is 8 to 7 in favor of the .38+P, a lot closer than the 8 to 5 you posted when comparing BB to Federal ammo.
Small TKO difference, plus you get an extra round in a SP101 sized revolver when you go with the .327. I say .327 matches up favorably against .38 +P in small frame revolvers.
I noted that BB also produces commercially loaded hot .327FM. And I also noted that Federal is doing a disservice to .327FM shooters with their mere three commercial loads that do not cover the range of .327FM utility and/or capability. Especially since Federal developed the .327FM.
Sure, "compares favorably," I'll sign on to that. This is not a .22LR vs 9x19mm comparo. But the comparison consists of a trade-off in the SP101: .38spl that does more damage vs .327FM which allows for one more cartridge.
I see no advantages or disadvantages of 148 gr wadcutters vs 100 grain wadcutters other than the 6th shot and the .327 LCR being heavier than the .38 LCR, so felt recoil is even less with .32 caliber and those two facets to me are worth owning over a .38.
Bigger hole, larger crush cavity, deeper penetration, greater availability of commercially loaded cartridges. Add to that the .38spl tgt HBWC has much greater use in contemporary competitive shooting sports, leading to more $$$ & attention paid to getting it right. Federal Gold Match .38spl 148gr HBWC is some crazy consistent fodder.
Yep, I have noted many times that the .32 family of cartridges owns the niche of lowest-possible recoil from commercially loaded centerfire cartridges in current production guns. Maybe beat only by .25ACP or .32ACP semi-autos.
The BB 158+P load vs a 100 grain JSP isn't a fair comparison, what's more fair and apples to apples is the 130 grain .327 load BB also makes and that out the same 6 inch barrel is probably going to be 1400-1425, which is 566-586 ft/lbs, a bit higher than the .38 load. Personally, I'm never buying either of these loads because I don't see where they excel in real world situations that make it worth $10 more a box over standard factory ammunition. If I'm going into large, dangerous game territory, I'm leaving my .327, .38's, and .357's at home and I'm bringing my big bore handguns like 10mm and Ruger Only .45 Colts.
There's fair and then their's fair. Federal developed the .327FM. Those three loads are what they consider appropriate to make and sell for the .327FM. Using the loads sold by the same guys who developed it is fair. Doing otherwise is making a "more Catholic than the Pope" argument.
OTOH, I think Federal is short-changing .327FM shooters. BB and a fellow on this thread have developed heavy-for-caliber loads that boost .327FM performance without (I assume) compromising safety or .327FM specs. And the BB loads are nothing new. .38spl+P and .38/44 loads of similar performance have been produced by the big ammo makers.
As for .357 and .327, I have no desire to shoot .357 out of a snub revolver for any reason. It's an experience few find pleasurable and unless you're using premium .357 ammo (which will cost the same as any .327 will) you're not going to be getting good velocities with it and thus bullet expansion may not occur, but you'll be getting a lot of blast and recoil.
Already said I don't like .327 in larger frame revolvers, so not covering that.
I'd like to know where you're getting your data for .357 being flatter and faster shooting than .327 out of a rifle. There's no way that a fatter, heavier bullet is going to be flatter than a lighter, thinner bullet because physics doesn't allow it.
I sway between going for the higher drama & velocity offerings that ensure reliable expansion (1000fps or more) and saying "Heck with it" and running 148gr tgt HBWC.
Ballistic coefficient of .32 & .38 projectiles:
gr, bc
Hornady .32 (.312)
60, 0.090
85, 0.145
100, 0.170
Hornady .38 (.357)
158, 0.199-0.206
Mass does make a difference, but not in the way you imply.
For velocity, if you're just looking at raw data from Buffalo Bore's website and their claims of 2200 fps with certain loads from a rifle, I believe them, but I don't factor in premium ammo when it comes to differences between calibers because there comes a point that the price for premium isn't worth it. $30 for a box of 20 rounds to get 2200 fps with a JHP that's going to explode and lack penetration once it hits doesn't sound like a good deal to me, not when $25 for 50 rounds of .327 can do the same numbers.
Saleen's test is just one lot of ammo in his rifle and I'm inclined to believe that the .327 can go faster than 2000 fps with a 100 grain bullet.
And if we want to speculate what Buffalo Bore can do with a 100 grain .327 load in a rifle, buy some and send it to me with a chronograph and I'll get you the answer.
With .327, I can handload ammo to the velocities Saleen listed and do it for a very low price. Also, all a .357 JHP is going to do once it hits something at 1800 fps is explode and not penetrate, while .327 has a higher sectional density and will penetrate with a 120-130 grain projectile.
I pinged Saleen for details. Assuming his veracity (no reason not to), he has done more loading and shot more hand loaded hot .327FM cartridges over a chrony than 95/100 handloaders who own a chrony would do for a load.
BB did not test their .327FM in a carbine. But if you look at Saleen's data (4.2" bbl & 20" bbl) and compare the MV of them, you'll see an increase in MV of 400-500fps for bullets weighing from 100gr to 120gr. Now look at the BB data for their 130gr and 100gr offerings. From a 5.5" bbl BB gets 1391fps and 1466fps, respectively. Assume BB manages to get the best improvement: 500fps. Rounding UP, that gives us 1900fps for a 130gr and 2000fps for a 100gr. That's giving .327FM all the breaks: more bbl length, max fps increase.
That data is in the neighborhood of Saleens. IOW, it corroborated the work Saleen has done. I think BB and Saleen are getting at the tippy-top of .327FM performance whilst staying within specs.
Not all JHP are made the same. My carry load for years with a .357mag snubbie was a Winchester load topped with a 180gr Nosler Partition JHP. Not going to explode. Neither will hard cast lead.
If we're talking sectional density, and especially sectional density in bullets of greater mass than general, I think the following might help:
.32 caliber (.311-.312")
- 60 grain, SD .088
- 71 grain, SD .105
- 85 grain, SD .125
- 100 grain, SD .147
- 130 grain, SD .189
.38 caliber (.357")
- 110 grain, SD .123
- 125 grain, SD .140
- 140 grain, SD .157
- 146 grain, SD .163
- 148 grain, SD .166
- 158 grain, SD .177
- 180 grain, SD .202
- 200 grain, SD .224
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Again, I am not sure what is so worrisome about the position that .327FM can not match what a larger cartridge can do at the top end, while showing a capability at the lower end for lesser recoil. Or that when .327FM matches a particular .38/.357 cartridge performance, it requires more pressure and/or muzzle blast & noise to do so. I smell dogma, while others smell heresy, I suspect.
And I will reiterate that I think Federal ought to provide a greater variety of .327FM loads for .327FM shooters. They developed it. They ought to provide at least one top-performing load compliant with the specs.